Boob etiquette (a question for the ladies).

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I don't think there's anything ironic about that.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 08:54 (seventeen years ago) link

if I'm good friends with a person, they know I'm not thinking about them in an erotic sense

O RLY?

i thought it was all 'platonic' sauna frottage with you?

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I have to say your comment about Roxy's boobs was the creepiest thing I can remember you saying on ILE.

If a VERY close friend indicates it's acceptable to talk about her boobs, then feel free to do so. Otherwise, don't. Full stop. The fact that YOU don't have a hang-up about it doesn't mean that it's going to be acceptable to all but a small minority of women (NB this may be different in Finland, where "your breasts are positively bursting with vibrancy today" may be the equivalent of "yours sincerely" or "hello", I dunno).

Crimea River (Mark C), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I realized immediately after I've posted that comment that it must have sounded pretty creepy, even though that was not the intention. So my apologies to Roxy. Sometimes I forget that while I can say certain things to certain people, I shouldn't say them to just anyone.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:17 (seventeen years ago) link

And this happens with many other things than boobs too. I think something went wrong with my Social Norms 101 course.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:21 (seventeen years ago) link

always with the 'social norms'.

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:24 (seventeen years ago) link

ha ha weird thing was i was going to make some jokey comment about roxy's breasts on that previous wdyll thread before Tuomas. i would've been aiming for that off the cuff/throwaway/nothingpersonal 'jokingly uncouth but meant in friendly way' brand of back-handed compliment.

I have to say your comment about Roxy's boobs was the creepiest thing I can remember you saying on ILE.

it wasn't THAT bad. i've seen far worse on here, and not from he.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:25 (seventeen years ago) link

no pictures?
:(

Mr Jones (Mr Jones), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it's all about who's saying it. I know certain people who can get away with all sorts of rude remarks, because that's their schtick. I don't think it's a good excuse when people are genuinely offended though.

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Steve, I think it would have seemed a bit creepy from you too :)

Crimea River (Mark C), Monday, 12 June 2006 09:42 (seventeen years ago) link

more boorish than creepy i was thinking - the difference must be acknowledged.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 12 June 2006 10:32 (seventeen years ago) link

i.e. "nice tits, luv" isn't creepy, it's just boorish/uncouth.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 12 June 2006 10:33 (seventeen years ago) link

nice tits, steve

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 12 June 2006 10:38 (seventeen years ago) link

creep

Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 12 June 2006 10:40 (seventeen years ago) link

The women's studies answer is about women's sovereignty over their own bodies and breaking away from the idea (in the US anyway, I can't speak for anywhere else) that it's within any man's right to comment on, discuss, or touch any woman's body. It's about disabusing men of the notion that they have any right or business commenting about women's bodies with an expectation that such comments will be welcome or should be heeded.

See also street harassment, Eliza Doolittle.

Kenan, a pH imbalance in the vagina can also lead to vaginitis or yeast infection. But hey, as long as such things have never negatively impacted your enjoyment of vaginas there must not be a problem, right? (Don't freak out, I'm just fucking with you, although you did illustrate another way in which male commentary on women's bodies can be unnecessary and unwelcome.)

Safety First (pullapartgirl), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:22 (seventeen years ago) link

i think tuomas is creepy but the idea that one doesn't have a right to discus other people's bodies is even more creepy.

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Things that are unneccesary are by definition awesome.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:29 (seventeen years ago) link

The women's studies answer is about women's sovereignty over their own bodies and breaking away from the idea (in the US anyway, I can't speak for anywhere else) that it's within any man's right to comment on, discuss, or touch any woman's body.

I most definitely agree on this in general, being a feminist myself, but surely there's a difference between objectifying comments from random assholes (or assholes that you know) and non-sexist chatter between friends of different gender? I think only the most militant feminist would say men can't talk about women's bodies in any case, regardless of the actual content of said talk.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:38 (seventeen years ago) link

"in a totally non-sexist way, i would tap that ass."

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:42 (seventeen years ago) link

am i the only one who thinks it would be awesome if 'boob etiquette' was joined into one word, 'boobetiquette'?

latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I have actually done this, but it was with a particularly objectionable former co-worker who'd had them done and was virtually waving them in everyone's face. It took every molecule of reserve in my body not to just snap "yes, your tits look great now fuck off".

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:45 (seventeen years ago) link

It's a basic linguistic shell-game: men do not have (the right to stare at any woman), so (men do not have the right to stare) at any woman. If only people bracketed their sentences correctly, we wouldn't have this sort of trouble.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:46 (seventeen years ago) link

As it actually happened, all I could muster was an embarassed squeak yes, they look nice" before running to hide behind a pint on the other side of the room.

(xpost)

Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:46 (seventeen years ago) link

since my friends know I'm not a sexist pig

And some Tuomas's best friends are boobs!

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 12 June 2006 11:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Let me give you another example: a few months ago me and a female friend of mine got into an argument on who's ass is bigger. This lead into us standing next to each other while another friend took measure of our asses. While our bottoms were literally treated as objects here, I think the whole situation had little to do with gender or sexism (towards either one of us). Now, most the discourse I have with girls on tits or ass or whatever is on this level, so I don't really think it should be labeled "creepy".

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 12:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Right, right. Everybody's right. It's not to say that I don't have some friends from whom I would take "Nice rack" as a sincere compliment and "How's your vaginal pH?" as a welcome expression of concern. I think there's a combination of male entitlement (to comment/critique women's bodies) and a social fiction that when men and women interact, men are able to table their sexy boob thoughts and just engage the woman as a peer that draw the line for me personally.

Here's an example: I'm out at a bar with a law school pal and at some point in the night he looks at my chest and tells me that my shirt makes my boobs look huge. Now this is completely unwelcome and innapropriate and I tell him so, to which he responds, "I'll bet you let Jeff tell you that your boobs look big!"

And I do, but that's because Jeff is MY HUSBAND. And unless there was enough alcohol involved that I don't remember it (which is possible), he's never made comments about my breasts while in public within earshot of our friends. And if he had, there was probably a fight later. But otherwise, of COURSE Jeff can tell me things about my boobs. I welcome such comments because they might lead to doing it.

Now I'm distracted. But I think I've made my point. Or I hope so because I'm late for work - the jist of it is that a reasonable rule of thumb (or boob) would be NOT to bring it up unless the woman initiates her body as a topic of conversation. Such as by waving her recently augmented tits in your face, for an excellent example.

Safety First (pullapartgirl), Monday, 12 June 2006 12:05 (seventeen years ago) link

last par otm.

Seriously, Try Punching This Guy in the Face and See What Happens (Enrique), Monday, 12 June 2006 12:14 (seventeen years ago) link

But hey, as long as such things have never negatively impacted your enjoyment of vaginas there must not be a problem, right?

haha I R A BOY

sinful caesar sipped his snifter (kenan), Monday, 12 June 2006 12:28 (seventeen years ago) link

what is this finnish boob word? i dislike the english word boob in most contexts

spectra (spectra), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

There are many words obviously, but the best translation and roughly the equivalent in tone is "tissi". "Tissit" in the plural. It's also the most popular one after "breasts".

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Let me give you another example: a few months ago me and a female friend of mine got into an argument on who's ass is bigger. This lead into us standing next to each other while another friend took measure of our asses.

Another average day in Finland...... :)

JTS (JTS), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link

It was a draw, by the way.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Har Har, look at those hooters!

Fluffy Bear (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Monday, 12 June 2006 13:54 (seventeen years ago) link

big tissit erotic restaurant

guns to deal with vodka (haitch), Monday, 12 June 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link

That restaurant looks even sillier than Hooters!

Abbott (Abbott), Monday, 12 June 2006 15:48 (seventeen years ago) link

When I was in highs school, some religious nutso actually burned down the strip club right next to our school. (We got the day off due to all the smoke; I don't think I've ever seen so many happy faces in our school, everyone applauded when the headmaster told us we can go.) The same guy also tried to burn Michael Jackson when he was having a gig here, but he was caught pouring gasoline underneath the stage before the gig started.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 16:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Here in the real world, we call that "arson," and you go to jail for it.

sinful caesar sipped his snifter (kenan), Monday, 12 June 2006 16:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Even the first time!

sinful caesar sipped his snifter (kenan), Monday, 12 June 2006 16:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't remember the details... Maybe he was caught only after the MJ incident and it was later found out he burned that strip club too, or maybe he was on probation or something. But I definitely remember it was the same guy, he thought strip clubs and Michael Jackson were ungodly.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

He was on to something.

sinful caesar sipped his snifter (kenan), Monday, 12 June 2006 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I once told friend she had great tits, but mainly because my g/f was losing an argument with her over how great my friend's tits were (female deprecation, actually wanted some male reinforcement since her b/f stopped sleeping with her).

1) Her tits are great.
2) My g/f pointed it out at much greater length than I did.
3) At that precise point, she needed a bloke to tell her that.

So, although I was definitely saying it from a sexist perspective, it's still (IMO) an order of magnitude less creepy than Tuomas in the Roxy example.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Bad move, dude.

sinful caesar sipped his snifter (kenan), Monday, 12 June 2006 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link

It's OK, I only did it once, and for the first time in over 10 years of non-sexism, plus the rest of her would be taken care of by other sexists so I didn't need to feel any liberal guilt about the bit I was associated with.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I think you're cool as long as you didn't attempt the quarter test.

Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it. Sometimes you do wrong things for the right reasons. I'd be wonderful to live in a world where your boobs wouldn't have anything to do with your self-esteem, but sadly that ain't the case. Of course in the long run such behaviour will only reinforce the existing sexism, but in some cases you gotta choose empathy over ethics.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Am I wrong to want to excelsior that?

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.
I don't find that much wrong in complimenting someone's tits if she's asking for it.

Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost The first sentence alone is priceless.

sinful caesar sipped his snifter (kenan), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I remember that tv show and thinking Sean Cassidy and the other guy were far cuter than the guys in "Dukes of Hazzard" - I think I had an argument w/a friend about this once.

incomprehensible Kool-Aid swallower (sarahel), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link

Not that it's super relevant but I knew at three girls in college who had reductions to alleviate back pain. Like a fairly common thing

rip ;_;

Ømår Littel (Jordan), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link

Don't worry bro they're all still pretty stacked

bentley cadence (gbx), Wednesday, 8 July 2009 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't think we have Hardy boys in here... Are they like the Famous Five?

Tuomas, Thursday, 9 July 2009 09:17 (fourteen years ago) link

five years pass...

since my friends know

Killarney Hilton (darraghmac), Tuesday, 9 June 2015 22:50 (eight years ago) link

A search of ilx reveals:

12 threads using the word "boob" in their titles
66 threads using the word "etiquette" in their titles
142 threads using the word "ladies" in their titles

I Am Curious (Boob) (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 June 2015 23:09 (eight years ago) link

Dying at "the mystery of bog boobs" upthread

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 June 2015 23:59 (eight years ago) link

underrated wutang joint

Killarney Hilton (darraghmac), Wednesday, 10 June 2015 00:03 (eight years ago) link

in some cases you gotta choose empathy over ethics

drash, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 00:13 (eight years ago) link

Man, I was a bit naive 10 years ago, wasn't I?

I still talk about boobs (in a non-sexist way), but I sure know the proper boundaries better now.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 10:58 (eight years ago) link

Hmm...can you give an example of your reformed boundary respecting approach?

quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Wednesday, 10 June 2015 11:20 (eight years ago) link

it's a trap

niels, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 11:27 (eight years ago) link

Sshh!

quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Wednesday, 10 June 2015 11:28 (eight years ago) link

lol

joked for the dadness (wins), Wednesday, 10 June 2015 13:02 (eight years ago) link


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