2008 Primaries Thread

of course, budget discipline doesn't look like something you do, which is probably why she isn't talking about it, which in turn is probably why she chose that solution. arguably, it illustrates that he's more confident on the issue, which may be way he made it into an issue.

Wow. I thought Cheney wiped the floor with him. I despise Cheney, but still, that one was painful.

yes! his poor performance is a strong part of my lingering dislike of (or at least lack of respect for) edwards.

I thought Edwards was as likeable in the debate last night as I've ever seen him. He actually got to come across as the level-headed conciliator, instead of the fiery demagogue for a change. I still think there's a lingering aftertaste of smarminess to him though.

I have no idea what goes on from these debate focus groups. As I recall Kerry got big points for "winning" 2004 debates but only insofar as you enjoyed seeing Bush look like an idiot (I did).. Luntz's New Hampshire debate focus group of "undecideds" went overwhelmingly against Hillary and for Edwards just a few weeks ago and that didn't work out too well for him. Do these people even vote?

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080122/capt.3fb781f8821847c3b6bcc9fa775f2ac0.huckabee_2008_gajb101.jpg

Huckabee loves cereal. And that board game.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20080122/2008_01_21t201708_450x334_us_usa_politics.jpg

Hope, Arkansas, in the house!

he punches back with a smile on his face, or at least calmly, instead of looking [insert gendered epithet here]

Obama makes a show of taking the high road, but his Wal-Mart jab last night was as much a street-brawler move as anything Clinton threw. I actually prefer Clinton's way of delivering a punch, since she comes across as less sanctimonious while doing it. And I'd have to check the tape, but I think that actually Clinton actually smiled more when throwing punches than Obama did last night. She had that grin on her face, like the cat with feathers hanging out of its mouth, whereas Obama seemed like he could use some Tums.

she is full of shit tho. never mind her attempt to argue that obama thought reagan was a good dude or whatever! could she be more blatantly dishonest

uh, YES?

i know obama's your boy and all but seriously

considering that republicans have been successfully planting the seed with voters that obama is a secret terrorist who's waiting to get elected and then bring down america from the inside, i'm pretty sure 'you praised reagan' is not one of the 100 worst smears directed at obama this week

she is full of shit tho. never mind her attempt to argue that obama thought reagan was a good dude or whatever! could she be more blatantly dishonest.

It's all part of HRC's meta-narrative, tho: "I'm the one who will attack each and every time the GOP comes after me, and I'll be ruthless about it." Even when her specific attacks against Obama fail or are blatently dishonest, they help reinforce her narrative.

And after 2004, lots of Democrats want someone like that. I think Obama can be that guy, with far less of HRC horrible baggage, but there it is.

It's all part of HRC's meta-narrative the plan.

-- The Joker, "The Dark Knight"

she comes across as less sanctimonious while doing it. And I'd have to check the tape, but I think that actually Clinton actually smiled more when throwing punches than Obama did last night. She had that grin on her face, like the cat with feathers hanging out of its mouth, whereas Obama seemed like he could use some Tums.

yeah, Clinton loves to zing - it's personal for her - while Obama finds it all pretty distasteful.

i'm pretty sure 'you praised reagan' is not one of the 100 worst smears directed at obama this week

It's nice to know that's the standard for presidential truthtelling. You deserve Giuliani/Podhoretz.

I actually prefer Clinton's way of delivering a punch

did you enjoy Reagan's "There you go again"? right.

Well, it is distasteful.

stfu morbz

http://obama.senate.gov/news/060209-pen_pals_call_t/ - this is how real G's zing

Sullivan, off his meds.

and otm

I hope Sully is around for Rodham's eulogy.

What kind of feminist is he? Good lord.

i like this new angry hillary

hillangry

What I'm not getting is how Sullivan could have been a Republican for years and years and now start complaining about politics not being all high minded and polite?

Still, I can't help but read Sully's piece and think, this person he despises so much sounds kind of awesome. I wonder what he'd have had to say about Sen Mikulski's first campaign, why, how can we ever elect her? She's a fighter? How shameless, how tacky!

He nicely glosses over the urge to out-and-out call her a bitch with the artful "rottweiler with issues," I'll admit.

Mikulski>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hillary

he just likes the bitch in her, i guess

He's been a conservative but not a Republican. Idea guy.

i don't know why i'm bothering, but while mikulski might be way more of a nerd than even relatively-bookwormish hillary, she's at least authentic and uncalculating and not pretending to be confident. at least when she isn't hitting on random men.

What does that mean, really, to be authentic? I don't understand. Not being facetious here. I really don't, and can't figure how anyone got to be elected Senator without actually calculating political moves. I mean, what is she pretending to be that she is not, thereby making her inauthentic?

lol yeah hillary, inauthentic? surely you jest

MUSIC CRITCS ARE THE ART OF PRETEND FORGETFULLNESS

Oh, fuck it. Burn the witch.

lololololol

you could argue that being less accomplished at projecting authenticity than all the other senators who do exactly the same thing as her actually makes her more authentic

from wikipedia

Speech patterns

Hillary Clinton campaign logoWhile speaking from the pulpit of the First Baptist Church in Selma, Alabama on March 4, 2007, as part of ceremonies honoring the anniversary of the Selma to Montgomery marches of 1965, Clinton adopted a broad Southern Drawl during parts of her talk and used speech patterns common to the Southern United States.[70] The native Chicagoan's normal speech is devoid of this accent. Clinton's defenders pointed out that she may have adopted a southern accent because she lived in the Southern United States for 17 years.[71] Defenders of Clinton also pointed out that the most commonly circulated audio and video clips of her "Southern" speech focused a segment in which she was reciting the lyrics of a James Cleveland hymn and trying to reproduce its original cadences.[72] However, on April 20, 2007, while speaking her own words to the annual convention of the National Action Network, she once again temporarily adopted this accent.[73] On April 27, 2007, while speaking at a Greenville, South Carolina campaign event, Clinton said that she had split her life among three parts of the country and that her sometimes-Southern accent was a virtue.[74] She joked, "I think America is ready for a multilingual president."[74]

The native Chicagoan's normal speech is devoid of this accent.

lol

Authentic is subjective, but this is where I'm saying that Obama is (I think very deliberately) not distorting any facts or taking quotes out of context -- this is the "high road" that could pay off if there's a way of getting this tactic across, because it's a much higher form of integrity than Bush and now Clinton have practiced.

Former President Clinton said Tuesday he enjoyed the bickering.

"I know you think it's crazy, but I kind of like to see Barack and Hillary fight," Bill Clinton told a mostly white crowd of about 300 at a black church in Greenville, S.C. "They're flesh and blood people and they have their differences — let them have it."

I gotta say, Bubba's role in this whole campaign so far has been really gross - from the lawsuit outburst to the "fairytale" comment to stuff like this. Blech.

my father last week on the phone re: obama: "you really think people are gonna vote for a muslim?" obv there's a lot of work still to be done.

Fwiw, Obama has adopted a Southern accent while in the South as well.

is it just the name?? some kind of generational memory of 'muhammad ali'? or are those emails getting around to everyone?

i've even talked to liberals from up here who said "yeah, he seems interesting. it might be good to have a muslim president"!!

Obama has taken a high-road of a sort, and I do respect him for it. I think it shows a form of personal integrity. However, I think that Clinton also has shown integrity. I don't think that her campaign has engaged in quite the all-out slime war that has been portrayed in this thread. What else can she criticize him on if not his public statements and record? His stated positions on the issues are almost identical to hers. I think that her criticisms have been within the bounds of fair play. How well does any of us know what Obama really thinks about Reagan and his ideas or why he chose that moment to bring them up? Those who like him assume he meant the best. But on the other hand if Obama's vague talk about transcending political differences makes you a bit suspicious, then remarks like that might set off a red flag.

xposts

i've even talked to liberals from up here who said "yeah, he seems interesting. it might be good to have a muslim president"!!

Yeah, I think my dad's girlfriend said something to this effect.

I thought he did a good job of giving the context to his Reagan statement after Hillary distorted it.

Hillary saying over and over in the debate "I didn't say Reagan! I didn't say Reagan!" seemed like a lawyerly parsing of words that people associate with the Clinton brand (and I loved this guys until recently).

it's the email! that was what my dad referenced. "a guy at work showed me this email..." (my dad is a furniture salesman, so not fortune 500 but...)

obama's vagueties def worry me. not that i think he's secretly conservative but that i'm still not entirely sure what his convictions are. but i do trust his intellect and whatever else i've been able to gather about him. but the crossover thing is totally true: going back to my family, all of them are SERIOUSLY hardcore conservatives, and when i was home for xmas none of them had anything bad to say about him at all, and i got more than an earful about edwards/clinton.

and i don't think he's done. he wins sc and suddenly momentum is his again. i don't put *any* stock in 2/5 polls yet. remember how giuliani was gonna run away with this thing?

Fwiw, Obama has adopted a Southern accent while in the South as well.

Obama has at times adopted the cadence of the black church, his belonging to one and being a black man and all