I'm totally OK with the GRAND SCHEME being mysterious and unexplained or even corny, but the small, scene to scene details like the idiotic, entirely unbelievable behavior of the crew and clumsy revelations are what really killed this for me.
― circa1916, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
I am going to wait for on-demand at home for this. I think the idea of a space jockey prequel is just something that was way too sexy in my head to be satisfied by anything real - had I my druthers, this would be a giant flop of epic proportions (John Carter!!!! Speed Racer!!!! Blade Runner!!!! ok and I guess it would also have just been called Space Jockey!!!! because all my fave flops share dactyl titles that I can add many bang bangs to the end of) wherein the space jockeys are the main characters and the plot would probably go along the lines of Project X with a dash of Rise of the Planet of the Apes, except xenomorphs in place of simians. So it's not that, obviously, and so, with lowered expectations, I will wait.
I did enjoy the long bad review by the archeologist guy whose name I forgot. Discussing his point re: holographic spaceship interfaces that get replaced with 1979 technology in the future gave me a chance to bring up the antikythera mechanism in conversation the other day.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:24 (eleven years ago) link
I totally googled antikythera mechanism. That's cool!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:28 (eleven years ago) link
so I have a t-shirt with big cooper black letters that says "Language is just math that's hard for engineers to do" - if I got another one that said "science fiction wishes it came up with the antikythera mechanism," which t-shirt would be the best
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 03:34 (eleven years ago) link
I love the idea in Dune of computers once ruining humanity, so machines from then on had to be simple and purely mechanical.
In Alien I feel like the shittiness of the tech makes "Mother" seem more intimidating; like there's a huge, powerful computer but we can only tap into it in limited ways.
― Matt Armstrong, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:02 (eleven years ago) link
xp - i dunno, probably that "clowns will eat me" one
― contenderizer, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:05 (eleven years ago) link
― circa1916, Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:23 PM (36 minutes ago)
oatey emm
― contenderizer, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
like there's a huge, powerful computer but we can only tap into it in limited ways w/ a trs-80
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:08 (eleven years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, June 12, 2012 8:28 PM (38 minutes ago)
― contenderizer, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, have heard about that thing a few times but had forgotten the name. A great find.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
it's cool but also pretty hard to believe. not saying i don't believe it, just in a "truth is stranger than fiction" sort of way. and in a "i wonder what other crazy inventions are lost to the sands of time" sort of way too.
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:35 (eleven years ago) link
The Great Big Grondologer
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:40 (eleven years ago) link
Slightly more seriously, my other favorite thing along those lines is the Baghdad Battery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery
Both it and the Antikythera Mechanism I learned about from this so thanks Arthur C Clarke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke%27s_Mysterious_World
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 04:42 (eleven years ago) link
i was searching for the baghdad battery just now! i forgot what it was called!
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:01 (eleven years ago) link
i think i learned about it from the book of that show. did it have a crystal skull on the cover?
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
The very same. I think I have it around somewhere still.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
oh right, here it is
http://sireadair.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/mystworldcoverskull350w.jpg
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:03 (eleven years ago) link
This may be the first movie that I've totally agreed with every criticism entirely, yet enjoyed the picture 100%.
― Darin, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 05:53 (eleven years ago) link
Mother receives the original distress signal and wakes up the crew and sends them down to the planet. Distress signal contained a "warning", as revealed afterwards and discovered by Ripley. So Mother deciphers the warning, determines an alien is involved, re-routes ship according to standing order and wakes up crew
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:30 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Is the message Shaw sends at the end of Prometheus intended to tie in with this message Mother picks up? Think I'd probably prefer if it wasn't.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 07:42 (eleven years ago) link
Nope, different planet.
― Chewshabadoo, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 08:08 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah I thought they were probably different planets or at least not necessarily the same one. Wonder how widespread the alien bio-engineered killing machine usage was supposed to be?Though of course once you have a mating pair they can perpetuate indefinitely. Or at least I'm assuming a queen needs an inseminator or whatever.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 08:17 (eleven years ago) link
Haven't read this thread, so someone else might have said this already but... did anyone else notice that the alien ships were exactly the same crescent shape as the design on the ELIZABETH SHAW mint crisp box? Spooky!
http://www.yourhamper.com/uploads/images/large/ezshdarmi175_g.jpg
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:08 (eleven years ago) link
Also, why is David called David? Considering the all the other heavy-handed allusions in this thing, why did they choose that one name? Was he supposed to be jewish?
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:12 (eleven years ago) link
Maybe Peter Weyland is Saul.
― glumdalclitch, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:14 (eleven years ago) link
This is why he took the crucifix away right?
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:15 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/images/symbols/crescent-200.gif
^ Crescent-shaped spacecraft descending from the stars, engineers = muslims?
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:17 (eleven years ago) link
Ash/Bishop/Call/David
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:17 (eleven years ago) link
it crossed my mind that "David" might be a reference tohttp://spielbergfanclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Osment-in-Ai-with-bear.jpg
probably not though
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:29 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.christusrex.org/www2/art/images/carav13.jpg
The other thing is that David originally decapitated Goliath, but in Prometheus, Goliath decapitates David
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:31 (eleven years ago) link
There's also a David Bowie, Man Who Fell To Earth thing going on I guess.
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:32 (eleven years ago) link
Or then again, maybe Ridley just wanted to reference 80s biker-noise band the Head of David at the end?
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:33 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/h2/h2_14.81.1.jpg
One thing I did enjoy was the very Blakean mass of the engineers
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:35 (eleven years ago) link
Fassbender:
The inspiration we used was David Bowie and The Man Who Fell to Earth, and for films there were the replicants in Blade Runner. Greg Louganis, in terms of physicality. Lawrence of Arabia of course, and Peter O’Toole as Lawrence, and Dirk Bogarde. They were the ingredients.
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:37 (eleven years ago) link
Aha - thanks!
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 09:38 (eleven years ago) link
all my fave flops share dactyl titles that I can add many bang bangs to the end of
Many xp but this is an amazing
― BC Forgbs (Ówen P.), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 11:27 (eleven years ago) link
I thought of a few fixes that would have maintained the wonkiness of the film but probably resulted in something more satisfying or maybe interesting:
1) More David at the beginning, developing his character, programming, motivation, perhaps hinting at his malfunction and or development into an intellectually curious being.2) Reveal more clearly that Charlize Theron is an android, too, and that she and David are in a sense competing for the affections of their "father" (parallels human search for creators as well)3) End the film similarly, but kill every human and leave David and Theron stranded on the planet forever, as eternal Adam and Eves stuck on an inhospitable to everyone but them Eden (ironic, given they are among the first non-humans).4) Have the Engineer successfully ship take off but crash land on the planet from "Alien," leaving that the sole explicit connection to the series.
For a movie about finding your creators, it makes sense that it should focus on the androids at least as much as the stupid people. And by leaving any overt connection to the "Alien" franchise until the end, people would have been all, huh, wow! Instead of, man, come on.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 11:39 (eleven years ago) link
Is there supposed to be an unclear reveal that Charlize Theron is an android? Idris Elba's character, for one, would probably be interested to hear that.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 11:45 (eleven years ago) link
They never reveal it, but it is strongly hinted. Besides, Scott has a thing for androids who don't know they're androids.
It can't be a coincidence that Fassbinder and Theron in this film look like siblings: skinny, fit, perfect, blonde, he the more curious one, she the colder one. Confirming Theron was an android, too, would have been a much better reveal than her "father" speech.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 11:56 (eleven years ago) link
or Weyland could have based the David design on what his son would have looked like
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:01 (eleven years ago) link
Why would an android do push-ups?
― Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:02 (eleven years ago) link
Well, why would an android eat food?
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:03 (eleven years ago) link
Do androids dream of electric sheep? Why does David play basketball? Why does he dye his hair?
xpost Sure. There are any number of avenues not explored in this film. It actually surprises me, given that Fassbinder and Theron are the only two actual movie stars in this thing, that they were not the clear stars and focus of the film, especially curious considering Theron is used so poorly/pointlessly and dispatched so quickly.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:04 (eleven years ago) link
They never show Theron sick after waking up, do they? Noomi is barfing up a lung, the rest are instructed to drink a lot of fluids. But Theron is up, immediately doing push-ups...
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:05 (eleven years ago) link
I just thought that implied that she'd been through the process before
― Number None, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:08 (eleven years ago) link
There's a lot "implied" in this film. One could say, too much implied.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:09 (eleven years ago) link
They should have called it "...Prometheus ..."
I am amused you think the push-ups strengthens your case! Vickers is far more likely to have done space travel before though.
only actual stars aside from Guy Pearce and Idris Elba?
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:09 (eleven years ago) link
Noomi is on the ascent to being a big name.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:14 (eleven years ago) link
NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIII.
There was a v good documentary about the Antikythera mechanism on BBC4 a week ago or so, might still be on iPlayer.
― nate woolls, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 12:33 (eleven years ago) link