meyers briggs has done poorly in empirical studies iirc
― the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
keep making mixes
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
not sure what your leanings are or thought style is, but reading about buddhism helped me put the crack in my life-long depression. it's not a cure-all, but the noble path, insight and breathing meditation, and nature of self and reality stuff is pretty damn useful as you figure things out.
helped me see how untrue the negative self-talk was cuz values are subjective and there is no objective truth re: our emotional selves and interpersonal/social shit, my equal place in humanity, etc. etc. dunno if this is just my own stuff, but regardless it's a good stepping stone to expanding your mind ... that's what it feels like getting out of each piece of depression, a totally unknown but actual reality becomes apparent in the mind. sorta a weird feeling ... maybe closest comparison is culture shock where going to a foreign country for the first time blows away your whole idea of how society can function.
― Spectrum, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:49 (eleven years ago) link
then again my current therapist has a freudian orientation which iirc also "discredited" and she's in charge of a clinical mft program and has been amazing so who knows maybe the meyers briggs will be useful anyway
― the late great, Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:53 (eleven years ago) link
you're INFJ and I'm INTP.how much of a J are you? Like, how much do you desire control and routine?
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:56 (eleven years ago) link
does this picture make you smile?http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/imdemo.gif
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:58 (eleven years ago) link
no no we know faces can't turn into those
― Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Tuesday, 12 June 2012 23:59 (eleven years ago) link
i really like buddhism, i used to read the heart and diamond sutras often and i've read a lot of pema chodron, and i like her, and i particularly like dt suzuki and alan watts even though that's not quite exactly the same thing
but even though i find that stuff has been useful for clarifying my intellectual ideas about life philosophy and reality and being and nothingness it's not really translated into a sense of contentment
then again i suppose they'd all say i need meditation too
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
are you really smart?
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:02 (eleven years ago) link
it's never too late to get stupid. and stupidity does have something to do with happiness
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:03 (eleven years ago) link
at least for me
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
i am definitely a creature of habit, down to warhol-esque eating habits
control maybe not so much but i do hate uncertainty ... i guess though that's more of an EJ vs IJ thing?
like i find my lack of self-control distressing and i have trouble rolling with the punches
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
am i really smart?
well i am posting to ilx on a macbook pro.
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
I think lack of self-control would be a good topic for you to bring up to your therapist. It seems like a topic that could be quite rewarding
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
idk man it's good to have some impulsivitywhat 'perfect self-control' looks like is anorexia
― Word of Wisdom Robots (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
imo imo imo
that's a truth bomb
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
― teh late great
lol, I'm not really sure how to respond to that
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.geek.com/var/www/geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/mac_vs_pc_2.png
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:13 (eleven years ago) link
late great otm
except that i didn't go to grad school and never had a dog
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:13 (eleven years ago) link
Really? I never thought of Buddhism as an intellectual thing, so maybe that's the dif in effect (sure it's a billion other factors, too). What I got from it is that it's about our reality, but I'm a weird dude and hv been obsessed with death and existence since I was a kid, so maybe I'm doing something else with it, I've only read one book and just jumped off from there. Try and apply Buddhist ideas to daily life like a scientist performing and studying experiments, some of the stuff in there is pretty cool... I mean, it's evident without Buddhism, but it's like a trade study manual, I guess. YMMV, though, dunno how much of this is me. just wanna help.
― Spectrum, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
I used to think I made my shitzu into the insecure catlike creature she is today... but dogs are stupid. telling myself that makes me forgive the way I act around them
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:16 (eleven years ago) link
there have been times when I've mixed absurdism with the buddhist teaching of *nothing matters* to great affect
loosely using effect/affect here is pleasing to me. now that's where we might differ (***J vs. ***P)
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
I think absurdism has been fundamental in my development, even before I knew what it meant
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i actually have been talking about that, we agree that my relentless negativity and self-criticism is a way to control the emotional stress of living w/ ups and downs by just making sure i'm always down
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
the late great, i would never have imagined you were a depressed guy. your online presence has always made you seem so sorted, interesting, creative and, yes, cool. i've always enjoyed your posts x
ps i'm on a massive downer myself "lol" but it's more to do with loneliness. i'm a p. social guy who has somehow ended up so closed off from people.
― jed_, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
I'm in yr shoes jed :( I've let myself become really housebound, uninterested in "going out", I dont drive so I never do anyth8ing much spontaneous. I think living with an ex is offputting to new guys, and I'm sick of being single. Its ... getting to me a lot. Recently tried a few times to do things to fix this, only to fall on my face in humiliation.
― Pureed Moods (Trayce), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
oh i'm interested in going out! it's just that no one really contacts me to do so and i have made a concerted effect to be proactive it's just kinda fallen on deaf ears. hopefully it will pass. for you too trayce. i have a job interview tomorrow. at least, i think it's an interview? it might just be a chat...
― jed_, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:18 (eleven years ago) link
Recently tried a few times to do things to fix this, only to fall on my face in humiliation.
perspective, tho -- i look at it more as dudes f'ing up.
i was going to go into a whole thing here but i'll refrain. suffice it to say that you needn't be coupled and you needn't settle for something half-assed just to be coupled.
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:23 (eleven years ago) link
Dats true. I dont know why of all things I'm letting *that* get to me when I could be improving myself practicing piano/drawing/catching up with friends. Gluh.
― Pureed Moods (Trayce), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
mookieproof is right
a lot of things have compounded on you of late and things feel are starting to feel futile and the mean voice in your head is getting more of an audience because you feel so down
it's worth it to the ppl out in the world who haven't met you yet to keep trying. and whether or not you meet boyz or beaus, you are not the sum of the bad voices in yr head
<3
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:33 (eleven years ago) link
-- the things other people point out to cheer me up are barely-disguised colossal failures (grad school)
i identify with this (and much of everything else you said, late great)
― rayuela, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
good news! i feel great this morning!
:-D
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
yay!
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 14:55 (eleven years ago) link
Awesome :)
I came back to this thread to say that the person whom suggested restarting a bicycle routine was otm
― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah the main thing I notice in common amongst people who attest to white-knuckling this shit w/o meds is a fervent commitment to eating right and exercising a lot.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
yeah even w/ meds exercise and diet are very helpful, but OTOH if i can push back on that, you don't want to break your ankle and then slide back into depression, so i don't think it's necessarily the silver bullet
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:20 (eleven years ago) link
i read about a recent significant study that questioned the efficacy of exercise in improving mental health but obviously there are a whole stack of other reasons why exercise is a good idea
― Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
My GP told me to get exercise. I was just all, now look.
― pplains, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/newsarticle-content/-/article_display_list/14089616/exercise-does-little-to-help-depression-says-study
― Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
but whether this proves to be accurate or not, if i was a GP i wd be telling people to exercise and not smoke and etc
― Mexès Coleslaw Massacre (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:24 (eleven years ago) link
lol pplains
― Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i always seem to swing back into dep when i stop eating right and exercising. i can never hold down a good routine for more than 3 weeks. whether it is the exercise or just having something to do...
― Smothered, Covered and Chunked!!! (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
suspicious of that study to say the least
― coal, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:35 (eleven years ago) link
Always feel a GP saying "get more exercise" is like an IT on the phone saying "Have you restarted the modem?"
― pplains, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
NV, there's an follow-up to that study on scientific american that states that "the people in the physical activity intervention did not end up exercising more than controls": what was happening was that people were being encouraged to exercise, not actually having their exercise monitored.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/scicurious-brain/2012/06/11/exercise-doesnt-help-depression-lets-take-a-real-look-at-that-study/
but, yeah, if i was a GP i think i'd be saying 'drink a reasonable amount of water, eat healthily, exercise, don't smoke, don't drink to excess' almost no matter what health issues were going on? that stuff is basic keeping-body-and-soul-together.
though, that said, i am trying to do things right right now and i don't feel better for it, only probably-not-worse.
― dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
(though i'm lucky in that when i am depressed i have pretty much no desire for alcohol or other drugs)
― dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
there's a lot to be said for not-worse! that not-worse-but-not-better period is when you let things slide because eh whats the point, but effect often not immediate
― coal, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
i totally believe exercise does a lot for depression, not least because a lot of depressed people worry about their bodies, lack serotonin and feel bad about not getting out of the house. exercising improves your self-image, releases happy endorphins and (if you're not doing a workout video) helps you get out of the house and connect w/ nature (if you're outside exercising) or meet new people (gym) or see interesting stuff (jogging in city)
but i also think there are probably people who already exercise a lot who are depressed, and that won't help them. and there's also sort of a plateau you reach (ime) where you can exercise as much as you want but you're not going to feel any better than you already do. in my case there were parental issues i hadn't dealt with that were just not being improved by more exercise (those issues dealt with now, thank goodness)
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
and i'm not kidding about exercise addiction! from wikipedia ..
Exercise addiction is thought to be related to the euphoric feelings resulting from the rapid release of endorphins that occurs during intense bouts of exercise. Although the evidence in not conclusive, there is a high correlation between exercise addiction and endorphins. Endorphins work by activating opiate receptors in the brain causing pain relief and are also correlated with causing euphoric feelings.[8] The decrease of pain and increase in euphoric feelings creates a positive feedback loop associated with exercise which is thought to be a cause of addiction. This feedback loop also helps to explain why intensity of exercise increases over time with exercise addiction. For individuals who exercise more frequently the effects of endorphins are decreased. A person with an exercise addiction will need to increase the frequency, intensity, and/or time of exercising to reach the desired euphoric feelings.[10]
but yeah, by all means, exercise!
in fact part of the reason i'm quitting my job is to cut down on my two hour round trip commute so that i can get home at a reasonable hour and have some time to exercise ... getting back on the bike regularly is my #2 or #3 priority this summer, more tennis too, and maybe try to pick up basketball again.
― the late great, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link