Grimes/Claire Boucher thread

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I will in a bit but my screen name was obviously in references to other people's posts with specific reference to a female rapper I currently like. You can refuse this explanation if you like and to be honest, given the circumstances I really don't blame you but you at least have my side of things now re: the screen name.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Ok, point by point:

Don't paint me as supporting Wayne Coyne or use it as an analogy here. I don't support him and it's not helpful.

It becomes so impossible to talk about this stuff, no matter how nicely you dress up the conversation, because people freak out and go "OMG you're accusing *me* of misogyny!!! how DARE you!!!" (see also the Erykah Badu thread ad infinitum) when what you are trying to say is "this stuff does not happen in a vacuum." The dialogue surrounding the way music made by men vs that made (or even liked) by women is discussed is loaded at a societal level.

I'm a fan of Erykah Badu and The Flaming Lips (especially the albums Soft Bulletin, Clouds Taste Metallic, Embryonic, Zaireeka) but I hate their Fat Freddie's Cat smokin dope and chasing skirt counterculture, hippie persona. If it turns out they did release that video without asking for her permission (no matter what she agreed to do or whether she'd done her research or not) then fuck that guy - what a cuntish thing to do.

Also, stop with the caps and the multiple exclamation points. If you keep on insisting that I'm being hysterical, "vicious", "violent", "knee jerk", shouting, losing my shit etc then eventually some people on this board will actually start treating me like I am and I'd prefer it if that didn't happen, given that I've responded to you calmly at every stage of this. All I said was that I reject any claims made here of misogyny. I know what the current thinking in gender studies on this is: it almost doesn't matter what I think, it only matters how you and other women feel about things I say. Which is fair enough I guess. Just don't expect me not to defend myself, and do me the courtesy of not throwing up a vitriolic and confusing smokescreen with all this OMG!!! stuff and constantly blurring the line between what you claim I do and what men in general do.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's this thing that outsidery dudes *love* to do when they are so tied up in their "OMG, I'm such an outsidery dude, I'm so not *affected* by society's mores!" that they don't even notice that they are telling a woman to "get her own house in order" from a screen name with a vastly derogatory term for women because that's just a cute or funny word to them, rather than a term of abuse which has been used to degrade you, personally, and hold back your entire kind. I don't know if it was intended to be *ironic* saying "I'm not going to wear that" when you were, literally, wearing it. You might insist you're wearing a plain white shirt but if you are existing in an environment where every single light shining on you is red, that shirt will look pink. Shouting that you are wearing a white shirt doesn't do anything about the red lights. They're still there, and denying that they exist makes the problem worse, not better.

I'm not an "outsidery dude" and have never claimed to be one. I'm the 40-year-old father of one who has a mortgage, edits a magazine and does a lot of freelance to keep that magazine going. All I do is go to work and go to nursery. Literally. I'm about as outsider as Keith Chegwin. I have never claimed to be not affected by society's mores. I do not know where you are coming up with this stuff from. I'm not even saying you're doing this on purpose but you seem to be partially having a row with me and partially with some other guys who've said stuff to you in the past. As irritating as it may be to be surrounded by oafs who talk shit about women must be, if we could stick to what I've said and done that would be helpful.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's this thing that ppl do when they're defensive (I include myself in this, BTW) which is, when they're accused of saying/doing something sexist (or racist or homophobic or whatever) which is to say "but I'm not misogynist so I REALLY resent that!" which is infuriating and counter productive.

It's like - we live in a culture which is just soaked in sexist values and we pick them up, consciously or not. I mean, I'm soaking in these ideas even though I've been actively resisting them for 30+ years. They're the things that pop out when we're shooting off the cuff, when we're tired, or not qualifying things or thinking them through.

This, and only this, is what led me to suggest you get your own house in order. You have just admitted that you make sexist, racist and homophobic comments on a public internet forum. I have not admitted to doing so, nor will I, no matter how much it irritates you. You are presuming too much about me with close to no evidence to go on. I will admit that your second paragraph here is spot on in general terms and yes, it's always good to have ones attitudes challenged and this board and OTF have played a significant part in me fine tuning my beliefs and attitudes on several matters. This, however, was not and will not be one of those occasions and there is no evidence to prove otherwise.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

I will in a bit but my screen name was obviously in references to other people's posts with specific reference to a female rapper I currently like. You can refuse this explanation if you like and to be honest, given the circumstances I really don't blame you but you at least have my side of things now re: the screen name.

Dude, I will accept this explanation. And I do not want to get into the whole "bitch" discussion again. However, you do have to understand that it is still a loaded word. And though there are contexts in which I am prepared to accept it, and even use it - it is one thing for a woman, be that Nikki Minaj or Meredith freaking Brooks, to use it. But that does not give you the right to trot it out coz you think it's funny.

And dude, this whole "gender studies" thing. This is a thing that is lived experience of myself, and many other women. It's a thing that we have to deal with, and we have the right to talk about it. If it's not something that applies to you, then you can admit "misogyny is a real thing" and move on.

It's when you go beyond that, and start implying things about my motivations for what I'm doing, you make yourself the asshole here.

I've been trying to be nice, and light-hearted and playful with the "OMG's" and stuff because I've learned that humour gets a better response when talking about serious issues. If you want to read that as "vitriolic" - that's your baggage that you're bringing to the party. I didn't use either the term "vicious" or "violent" at all in my post, but you somehow decided that I did.

This kind of stuff - reading "vicious" and "violent" and "vitriolic" where I'm trying to be playful and lighthearted and have not used those terms at all - can you see how that might lead me to think that there's other stuff going on in your head?

Coolyplay G (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

I am, unequivocally 100% sorry about the offence caused by my screen name. I'm fucking mortified in fact. I genuinely thought that on a board such as this, taking a line from a female rapper and using it in a different context, i.e. about reading someone else's posts, with no direct misogynist overtones would be ok but I now see that I was being a fucking idiot - and that by using such a loaded word with such a grim history I would have upset at least a handful of people. This much is crystal clear. If there is anything I can do to try and make up for this within reason, I'll try and accommodate you. And I'll try and watch my language - an unfortunately atavistic product of my upbringing - in future.

XP: I just wrote this so I'll submit anyway.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Doran if you would stop being so viciously defensive and actually looked at the things you were saying...

I didn't put the word vitriolic in quotes.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

You have just admitted that you make sexist, racist and homophobic comments on a public internet forum.

That is not what I said at all.

I said that I am soaking in a culture that is so deeply seeped in racism and sexism and homophobia, that some of my first, subconscious reactions to things are informed by the racism, sexism and homophobia of the culture I live in. I am not separate from my culture or my society. I breathe this stuff the same as everyone else does.

Rather than give in to those learned impulses, I TRY to examine things, from my own perspective, and from the shared experiences of others, BEFORE I type or hit submit on an internet forum. It doesn't always work, I often have to be corrected, especially on issues of race and class. But the difference is, I acknowledge that this society is often racist and classist, I admit that bias, I try to correct it, and I move on. I don't carry on still insisting that other people are somehow out to get me, or "violent" because they point out that these things exist. That's an asshole move.

Yet that's exactly the move that you are playing on me, when I suggest that society's ideas about women *might* be affecting the criticisms you raise about a female artist.

Coolyplay G (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

You claim that you're stopping to read other people's posts before hitting submit but you just aren't. I said you were accusing me of talking violently, with vitriol and being vicious.

I shouldn't have put the word "violent" in quotes but the sentiment still stands.

Look, as far as I can tell I'm reading everything that you say very closely and you're not doing the same with me. If you don't stick exactly to what I've said and done there's no point in carrying on.

If you want me to I can get back to answering all the points in your first, giant post of today if you like.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

No. This is where I walk away from the argument because we've been butting heads for nearly a decade now, you just accuse me of things you do (and I no doubt do the same) and this isn't solving anything.

It does not matter to me if you answer or not. Have a nice life.

Coolyplay G (White Chocolate Cheesecake), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wait, I know you? Who are you? I have no idea literally. Someone from the Plan B messageboard? Or OTF? Those being the only places I've argued with people online.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 13:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Jesus Christ I hope people aren't responding to the image if that's what it looks like because her image is fucking terrible. It reminds me of those Klaxons style hipster wizard suits.

Matt DC, Saturday, 9 June 2012 14:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm sorry to be a pedant but for the record I said personality which is a combination of image and many other things in this context. Sorry, but you can probably see why I'm a bit jumpy about this now.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 14:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

#seapunk

lag∞n, Saturday, 9 June 2012 14:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

so Grimes is opening for the Lips in New Orleans on their record-breaking gig attempt whatever thing.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 9 June 2012 16:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

was going to b**** about her skipping DC but just noticing that she's playing here with Elite Gymnastics in September so fuckin' get in

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Saturday, 9 June 2012 16:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

For the sake of my mental health I hope they don't make a video together.

Ima Pay Close Attention To Your Post (Doran), Saturday, 9 June 2012 16:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

should be an ILX fap at the lips/grimes show, everyone can talk a few things over in the bar beforehand

blossom smulch (schlump), Saturday, 9 June 2012 16:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

For the sake of my mental health I hope they don't make a video together.

A+

Ò (Ówen P.), Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

cmon clusterfuck supernova would be fun while it/we lasted.

Merdeyeux, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

naw

flopson, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

friend of mine doesn't like this artist because iho it is "lifestyle music"

flopson, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

The lifestyle of being 23 and going thrifting?

Ò (Ówen P.), Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

I always think that's one of the daftest kind of criticisms people make. all music is lifestyle music, there's no escaping it.

Chris S, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

later the same night he put on ariel pink though :-/

flopson, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

i def think some music is more "lifestyle music" than other, but it's definitely a neutral characteristic rather than a solid basis of, like, dismissal

flopson, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

fuck everyone

of family bonds and individual triumph. Narrated by Tim Allen, (zachlyon), Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

I dunno, even bland, regular guy music is 'bland, regular guy music'

Chris S, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

although I guess there are varying degrees of awareness of this. like bro-punk bands that are "y'know, just playing music"... which of course means music that reflects their lifestyle and sounds like a musical personification of their character/culture

Chris S, Saturday, 9 June 2012 20:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

somehow this is a real thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=ScPaXIyb3SA

fffv, Monday, 11 June 2012 00:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

huh, all it took was one kreayshawn collab to kill this thread

diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Friday, 22 June 2012 15:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Or just a lack of any new music or exciting performances?

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

Still loving the album. Incredibly excited about a recent twitter exchange that suggests that Claire and le1f might be recording something together. Waiting to see what happens next.

twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

her music has that chillwave someone singing along to the radio thing going on, which is pretty i think limting

lag∞n, Monday, 25 June 2012 01:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

but she some cool qualities

lag∞n, Monday, 25 June 2012 01:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

"Skin" is kind of transcendent, really.

Turangalila, Saturday, 14 July 2012 05:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

But this whole album creeped up on me unexpectedly, having initially dismissed it as vapidly pretty.

Turangalila, Saturday, 14 July 2012 06:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

i like to think that i would have gone to grimes skrillex diplo had i been in town, going to be insane

carly rae (flopson), Saturday, 14 July 2012 16:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

no grimes skrillex diplo is the name of my dog

lag∞n, Saturday, 14 July 2012 16:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Driving in for Pitchfork today mostly to see her. Hoping it'll be a good show; she has a headlining-ish slot

Evan R, Saturday, 14 July 2012 17:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

She played Toronto last night w/Diplo and Skrillex. Didn't go but I chatted with some random attendees afterward: "oh yah she was cool but we were there to see Skrill". Skrill? OK!

Ówen P., Saturday, 14 July 2012 18:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol :-)

carly rae (flopson), Saturday, 14 July 2012 18:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

next unlikely touring lineup can be The (Skrill) Ex.

Merdeyeux, Saturday, 14 July 2012 19:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

that would be p dope if he officially changed his name to "SKRILL" at some point

♆ (gr8080), Tuesday, 17 July 2012 20:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sounds like fish food to me

Moodles, Tuesday, 17 July 2012 20:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Skrill (ex-Skrillex)

Ówen P., Tuesday, 17 July 2012 23:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

The Painter of Blight™ (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 18 July 2012 00:11 (1 year ago) Permalink


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