Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

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I kinda think we won't be seeing much of Peggy anymore, actually. When these characters leave SDCP we don't see much of them any longer. I mean, a bit, sure. But I doubt there will be much Peggy unless she comes back.

homosexual II, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Pete is worse than Duck.

homosexual II, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

seems weird tho. after Don she was the most important character.

xpoast

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

although icing main characters seems to be a theme in my fav shows right now.

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

like i said, sitcom spinoff!

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 03:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

well this was ugly, but in its ugliness it had some life and forward motion which i'm realizing was kind of missing from this season so far.

i think all the angles and justifications and reasons for the joan thing were laid out pretty well. plus all of the ironies of who knows what about it. i don't really know what to think about it but worrying about 'respect' can be spun out in a bunch of different ways. nobody can doubt she's a trooper.

plus all of the ironies of who knows what about it: pete tells don "it was her idea" (but it wasn't, it was lane's) (and she only agreed thinking don was in favor) etc etc

the partnership stake being lane's idea is p interesting.

goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

peggy and don's scene was out of sight.

though honestly lane's money trouble is one of those hanging problems that strains my credulity. are we supposed to think that being hard up is shameful enough that he can't find a solution openly? i don't think having the government come after your money would be to this group, esp. cooper the randian.

goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm not so sure that Joan is going to lose out from this - she is the person who keeps the entire business running, basically. Don figured out from day 1 not to cross her. I don't see how it changes a lot except that she'll presumably make more money.

seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

freddy in the diner was fun. he's the only everyman type on the show who'll enjoy sitting in a normal diner, working his way through coffee and pie around normal people. anyone else on the show would be like "oh i suppose i will deign to sit amongst these plebeians, just this once."

i found this to be a heartbreaking episode not just for joan, but also for don. when don registered that joan had gone through with the deal, i thought i saw something in him die a little.

Hamm was amazing in Peggy's resignation scene (as was she, but him especially), going from kind of a blase reaction to bewildered anger to sadness

quoted for truth.

phantompenguin, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I feel like Joan fucking that Jaguar Jagoff was the darkest moment in this whole series. I mean, I don't think you can watch five seasons of this show without being completely in love with her, and you just don't want the woman you love making that decision.

Also, I love Lane, but I really hope he gets caught. It's just fair. Maybe Don'll challenge him to fisticuffs over the forged signature.

Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

"we would have given you the money!"

goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Joan-Peggy one-two is probably the hardest hit he's had since Anna died. xpst

Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Peggy's new job is a happy moment for me though. She wasn't appreciated there. Good for her.

Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don's a wimp.

Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess I didn't find this episode all that out-there and not everyone is in love with Joan - she's not terribly kind or supportive to women who aren't deferential toward her. the show is good in that it does make her sympathetic but she's an integral part of the culture at that office that only really allowed one woman to get promoted beyond being a secretary & then had to quit this same episode to actually advance in her career.

Joan getting raped by her fiance and then marrying him - that was dark. That was worse.

seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

people keep telling me about this rape. i missed a big episode somewhere

Fellini.Kuti, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Isn't Peggy now "lead copy" or something high up like that at the new place? Whatever it was that was written on the napkin? I don't think it was the fact that she wasn't appreciated at SCDP - though Don probably didn't show his appreciation enough - but I think she knew she had gone as far as she could go as a protege. Both Freddy and her saying that Don would have done the same thing was otm, and Don couldn't really argue with that. Beautifully done scene.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm not sure this was as dark as the rape episode. I think what made it feel that way was the complicity of the people involved though. It felt like they crossed a rubicon.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost I assumed it was the lack of opportunities. Everywhere she turns it's "we can't put a girl on this account, we can't put a girl on that account, don't tell them you're in charge of this account, let someone else take the credit," etc. It was always done as if it was necessary to meet the client's needs but SCDP wasn't going to even try to educate the client or stand up for their own people. Seemed that Peggy kept getting stuck with all the boring work the guys weren't interested in.

seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

joan has a vote now, so i imagine they'll move to some sort of situation where here stake matters in some important decision.

s.clover, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

I kinda think we won't be seeing much of Peggy anymore, actually. When these characters leave SDCP we don't see much of them any longer. I mean, a bit, sure. But I doubt there will be much Peggy unless she comes back.

― homosexual II, Monday, May 28, 2012 8:30 PM (53 minutes ago)

nah, i refuse to believe it. as thermo said, after don, she's the show's most important character. like a sitcom everywoman, she's the POV through which we see the office - though i guess this is less the case now than it was during the first couple seasons. as when joan and peggy left the office's immediate orbit, i imagine the writers will track her doings for some time to come.

and fellini.kuti, otm. while the show's gone dark before, it's never hit me quite as hard as this.

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everywhere she turns it's "we can't put a girl on this account, we can't put a girl on that account, don't tell them you're in charge of this account, let someone else take the credit," etc. It was always done as if it was necessary to meet the client's needs but SCDP wasn't going to even try to educate the client or stand up for their own people. Seemed that Peggy kept getting stuck with all the boring work the guys weren't interested in.

― seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Monday, May 28, 2012 9:34 PM (1 minute ago)

also, don's been a complete asshole to her for q

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

... uite some time. it's obvious that she respects the hell out of him, and just as obvious that he views her as a nuisance whenever she isn't fading functionally into the background.

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

"OH NOES THAT ELEVATOR DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK. DON'T DIE! Okay, whew."

― Johnny Fever, Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:37 PM (Yesterday)

ha ha i was worried about peggy plummeting to her death too! every time someone uses the elevator now it's very stressful

― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Sunday, May 27, 2012 10:39 PM (Yesterday)

lol, yeah, i was worried about drunk roger falling down the elevator shaft last week

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Peggy's gonna get busted for weed, and Don'll have to bail her out.

Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think he views her as a nuisance she isn't in the background. I think he expects her to be able to operate on her own, and he definitely has a "you're a subordinate and you'll do what your told" mentality a lot of the time, but that's to be expected. She had no where further to go at SCDP as long as Don was there, and they both knew it.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

So many moments in the series when Don behaves like an asshole for reasons I can't understand. Some of them I can figure out, but others - like throwing money in Peggy's face - no idea.

You know someone is going to fall down that elevator shaft in the next two weeks. Maybe Jaguar guy? I hope it's not Ken.

seriously, THIS GUY (daria-g), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

General Don frustration at his seemingly endless writer's block, I thought. Unless that convo happened shortly after the creepy Joan meeting?

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

seems impt that ginsburg came up with the line after all. i'm really beginning to love that character, and the guy who plays him.

goole, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

there were pins set up for Ginsburg that need knocking down in the next two episodes. Though Peggy's the only one he told his weird alien/not my real dad story to, so maybe that will never come up again, thanks Matt Weiner

"Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 04:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i loved Ginsburg's explanation.. something along the lines of "i was thinking about the jerks that buy these cars..." and it seemed alot like he was describing Don.

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

he was definitely describing Don.

Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

he was trying to, but it contrasted with last week's conversation between don and joan:

"I don't know what it is. The car does nothing for me."
"It's because you're happy. You don't need it."

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

Unless that convo happened shortly after the creepy Joan meeting?

I think it happened immediately after the creepy Joan meeting. Don was in no mood for niceties.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't know that he was trying to describe don specifically. xp

phantompenguin, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just finished watching the repeat airing from tonight and it's even more potent the second time. All of it. Don and Megan. Don and Peggy. Joan and Pete. Joan and Lane. Joan and Don. This show doesn't always excel at the actual art of acting, but it most certainly did this week.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thought it was a nice moment with Don and Peggy when he told her there was no way she'd be working on Jaguar - she read it as confirmation that she'd never get good work at SCDP but in that instance Don was trying to protect her after being horrified by what happened with Joan.

I DIED, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, and Joan and the sleazy dealer. When she turned around to unzip her dress and the camera switched to her face...gutwrenching.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think I can overemphasize the two most important Joan and Don scenes, either. When her head dropped as she found out Don had been overruled and when Don learned she'd been made a partner by doing it anyway. ACTING!

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Jaguar meeting also showed Don's value and what puts him on a different plane than Peggy or Ginsburg - he was always better at the pitch than the actual copywriting and generating ideas is a different game than selling those ideas. Can't see someone like Ginsburg pitching his concept to Jaguar and getting nearly the same response with it.

I DIED, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sketchiest part of the ep for me was how little Roger had to say about the whole affair. Reeked of contrivance.

Simon H., Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'd say it was because now he's got two ex-wives and his family to support, but he was also trucking the lobsters.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

But really, Roger doesn't care about anything other than himself and the practicalities. He can justify anything if it gets him what he wants. He loves Joan but he's never been able to treat her as an equal. He's a pretty sleazy dude, all told.

Then again he'd blow up the Honda account by going after the Japanese because of WWII, but maybe he cares more about that then he does women.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 05:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

roger torpedoing the honda account seems like a relic from a less-developed era of the show & characters. hard to believe that the roger we've subsequently come to know would care enough about old grudges to do something like that.

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mad Men doesn't usually get me emotional but when Jaguar creep says to Joan "Now let's see 'em" and they cut to the blank expression on her face...aw jeez louise.
I could hardly watch I felt so sad.
Poor Joan.

I feel like there was some weird theme with Don + losing his "power" with women?
- With Megan & the audition, he says no she says eff off I'm doing it
- With Joan he says you don't have to lie with the creep but it's already a done deal, he thinks he saved her only to find she did it anyway
- Peggy's resignation. He can't talk her out of it.

I dunno, it just felt like a mini arc in light of the Jaguar/ownership of beautiful woman thing. Or i'm reading too much into it.

Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

no, that's a good catch wr2 the idea of ownership and control he was pitching to jaguar

spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

It contrasts w/Pete's war against women, which really became a thing post-Rory.

Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don's relationship with women is definitely a running theme in the episode and, with regards to Megan, the season as a whole. The chauvinistic comparison of the Jaguar to a mistress is kind of a joke because it's not just some wayward fling on the side they can't control anymore, it's all the women in their lives. I think Don really likes Megan's free-spirit, independence, but he has a really hard time letting go of the way things "should be", in his mind, which is why he's been such a prick but also has eventually relented. Pete definitely set up as an opposite all season. He's not coping with the realities of women-as-people instead of women-as-objects nearly well at all.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don also has issues with prostitution because of his mother, which is why I don't think he'll think less of Joan for doing what she did, but rather he feels guilty for being complicit in an environment that virtually necessitates prostitution.

Maybe I'm forgetting other times, but the only time I seem to remember him with a prostitute was the one that he paid to dominate him - even at his lowest the only way he could be with a prostitute was to give her the control his mother didn't have etc etc.

Fas Ro Duh (Gukbe), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

He had a hooker party w/Lane that one time too.

Hare Kinsey (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 06:26 (2 years ago) Permalink


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