Rolling Metal Thread 2012

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Yeah, this Grand Magus album is solid, in the solidest sense of solidity. Metal in the oldest, grandest, Steppenwolf-and-Deep-Purple-invented-this tradition.

glenn mcdonald, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

"Starlight Slaughter" totally sounds like Down to Earth era Rainbow.

A. Begrand, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

That song has been stuck in my head. I love catchy songs about werewolves!

Hellhamster 2: Hamster Smashed Face (J3ff T.), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 19:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

Awesome show all round. A Norwegian (?) sludge band playing their second ever show were a blinding start, then Hey Colossus (who I have always managed to miss until now) totally knocked me out.

Harvey Milk completely brought it though, with a sludge doom first half culminating in Anvil Will Fall, then an unexpected Shame ushering in a totally rocking second half. We also got an encore of Lay My Head Down in defiance of the curfew which you might not get at the weekend. Creston's voice is in seriously bad shape though, so I wouldn't actually like to predict just what you'll get at the weekend.

I must be old, I recognise nobody in ITV2 idents (aldo), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

Hey Colossus are awesome. How was the drumming? They've recently picked up Tim Cedar - frontman of Part Chimp - on sticks.

Ima Skim Read That Bitch (Doran), Wednesday, 23 May 2012 23:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

Haha, I was pretty sure it was him but thought it too odd a change to be right. Drumming was great, he hits hard and the second last track had some really strange tempo changes and stop-starts that seemed to suit his style well.

I must be old, I recognise nobody in ITV2 idents (aldo), Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

Doran: I'm going to the Slayer IBYM show. I'm particularly looking forward to seeing Sleep.

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

what do you guys think of the Scion support of heavy music? Is it a bullshit way for some corp to get their name into the minds of unsuspecting folks or is it just a cool thing for metal in general, good bands, getting good money to do good free shows..

I've had some lengthy discussions both online and in person with a lot of folks, what does ILM think?
Are they supporting heavy music, or are they trying desperately to infiltrate the underground to sell cars?

SeanWayne, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

and on a related note.. Enabler has the drummer from Fall Out Boy playing drums for them... does this ruin street cred, or does it even fucking matter?

SeanWayne, Thursday, 24 May 2012 08:27 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was at HM last night and thought it was great - Creston's voice didn't strike me as being notably shot, haven't listened to em for a long ass time tbh so maybe it just sounded like old man blues croak. love their idea of a 'party' set for the second half

Hey C were great when they were in a groove, less so when trying to find it (and when the sound levels were all rong) but fukkit I love them. first band are called Hark, are not Norwegian, and have the singer from Taint in if you know them

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 10:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

will be at IBYM on Friday only, daresay I'll see you there JD

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 10:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

only loosely au fait with Enabler but the drummer came up through 90s bands like Racetraitor iirc? always understood that to be where most of FoB started out, bands-wise

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 10:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

Here's a playlist I made for Friday's Slayer IBYM day: http://open.spotify.com/user/nstewart/playlist/0XZY0e6TxsxMxKe8YOCJFj

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Thursday, 24 May 2012 11:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Great stuff, hopefully see you both there. I'm so excited I'm going to go down when it opens and watch half of Storm Of Light and half of They Live. Thanks for the spotify. As soon as my boy wakes up from his nap I'm going to stick that on. (Or if his naps goes on to long perhaps I'll put it on before he wakes up.)

Ima Skim Read That Bitch (Doran), Thursday, 24 May 2012 11:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

NP. I've just added some WITTR for the sake of completeness. Will keep an eye out tomorrow!

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Thursday, 24 May 2012 11:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

what do you guys think of the Scion support of heavy music? Is it a bullshit way for some corp to get their name into the minds of unsuspecting folks or is it just a cool thing for metal in general, good bands, getting good money to do good free shows..

I've had some lengthy discussions both online and in person with a lot of folks, what does ILM think?
Are they supporting heavy music, or are they trying desperately to infiltrate the underground to sell cars?

The fact that you have had "lengthy discussions" on this subject makes me very, very sad. "The underground" is not a real thing that exists, and if it did, it would not exactly be a major source of purchasing power. Also, the idea of "unsuspecting folks" being stealth-marketed to by corporations is a bad joke. It's 2012; no one is "unsuspecting" if they're past the age of, say, five. I think there's been sufficient testimony regarding artistic non-interference from the actual musicians involved that the "metal community" can happily accept the free music and, if the sight of a Scion logo offends you, put your hands over your eyes as you listen.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm actually getting really excited about the Slayer day of IBYM in London now.

Is anyone going?

Yep, just the Friday.

The Eyeball Of Hull (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

I liked it when Scion emailed me a free Omar-S EP the other week

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 12:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

i have no problem with scionfest as its got good bands but

"The underground" is not a real thing that exists
fuck off. Just because you dont have a clue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's thousands of DIY labels out there. Take your inverse snobbery and shove it up your roadrunner shilling arse.

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

at the risk of stunting the growth of another amusing ILM beef, I suspect you've misinterpreted what he was getting at there

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

ie my reading was that it wasn't a tangible and rigidly definable thing, so strictly speaking couldn't be 'infiltrated'

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

well in which case apologies but he does have a record of slagging off underground metal bands/labels/fans(and me the other day). i know several people who work really hard doing their own labels or distros, not for much if any profit, but for love of music and they fund it out of their own pockets. They dont have pr men or advertise in metal magazines so therefore dont make EOY album lists like the bigger labels (indie or major) can.

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 13:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Today in Glasgow I bought a couple of Trouble live lps and the paul chain ep. All on HRR. Also got the 1st Argus and The Devil's Blood cds 2nd hand. They had loads of other lps i wanted like the 1st In Solitude album but couldnt afford it. Sadly they didn't have the Torche lp either.

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Here's why and how I can argue that "'the underground' is not a real thing that exists":

I am 40 years old. I have been actively involved with unpopular music (going to shows, buying records, reviewing bands for tiny fly-by-night zines) since roughly 1985 (the writing part started in 1996). Many's the time I have considered starting a label of my own - though in my case it would be a jazz label, so I'd really be throwing money down a hole. In all that time, I have never encountered a musician who wanted to be less well known than they were, or have fewer people hearing their work. The problem was never one of "selling out" - it was one of getting someone, anyone, to pay any attention at all.

The whole idea of "selling out" exists only in the minds of insecure and overzealous fans (many of whom are also writers, unfortunately, which is how this absurd idea maintains currency) who don't want people they don't personally know (or, at the very least, people who seem cool, thus making the insecure and overzealous fan feel cool by association) listening to their favorite bands. Bands want to be heard, and art requires patrons. For a while it was the Catholic Church or various rich fuckers who were paying the bills, and now it's corporations. DIY is great, but 99 percent of DIY metal artists and labels would happily take a bag of money if it would help get their music to more people. (I specify metal because there's always the counterexample of the noise scene, which is willfully obscurantist because it's basically a cranky, reactionary, fuck-you-Dad gesture against the larger society. Which is fine. Pat them on the head and leave them alone.) The only time an artist "sells out" is when they do something they would not otherwise do, solely for the money. I have not yet seen a Scion-sponsored artist write a song about Scion cars.

And, to reiterate, when you're saying "the underground" you're talking about under-capitalized, lower-tier artists with little or no public profile. These are not people with a lot of money. They probably can't afford to buy a new car. So why would it make sense for a car company to market to them and/or their fans? I don't have an answer to why Scion supports metal. But I think the bands are finding the situation advantageous, so good for them.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't have an answer to why Scion supports metal.

i am truly amazed that they are still at this, it's been several years now

call all destroyer, Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't really know shit about cars or how much a new Scion costs but at this point I suspect the people watching most of the sort of bands that play Scion events make more at their job than the bands do

cissémanwhore (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

music writers like yourself? ;)

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 14:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

music writers like yourself? ;)

Yeah, except even when I was 24 and getting my first pieces published, I never believed in the idea of "selling out" or used that phrase in my work.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

In all that time, I have never encountered a musician who wanted to be less well known than they were, or have fewer people hearing their work. The problem was never one of "selling out" - it was one of getting someone, anyone, to pay any attention at all.

well there are always tru kvlt black metal dudes

I want L'interieur chicken, not Hausu chicken (jjjusten), Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

those guys are similar in FU attitude to the noise bands, I suppose.

Arvo Pärt Chimp (Neil S), Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, but that's the equivalent of a small child yelling "Don't look at me!" at the top of its lungs. It has the opposite effect.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

as a dude that works in a different end of the music industry tho, yeah, i agree with your sentiment 100% (abt the wanting to be known aspect)

I want L'interieur chicken, not Hausu chicken (jjjusten), Thursday, 24 May 2012 15:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

The whole idea of "selling out" exists only in the minds of insecure and overzealous fans (many of whom are also writers, unfortunately, which is how this absurd idea maintains currency) who don't want people they don't personally know (or, at the very least, people who seem cool, thus making the insecure and overzealous fan feel cool by association) listening to their favorite bands.

this is a falsehood. it is true that most bands would like to be more heard. testimony, I got an offer for a hotel ad a couple years ago, they were just using an instrumental part of a really good aerosmith song. the song's important to some people, doesn't really have anything to do with getting a good night's sleep at a hotel. in fact, what goes on in a hotel in this song would probably get you thrown out of the hotel. so I said "no," because it wouldn't have been right for the song, aesthetically, to be placed there, even though it would have expanded my audience and gotten me paid. taking the money & coming up w/some bullshit rationalization about it would have pretty much been dictionary-definition "selling out."

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

so the point is, it's actually possible to hope that people who'd enjoy what you do will hear it, and work hard to make that happen, without whoring yourself for money, which is what tethering your music to an unrelated product is, imo. the scion stuff is more interesting than that, because it really does seem to be helmed by dudes who give a shit about metal & are putting on good shows, which is important to the scene is ways that scene purity isn't. to then say "there's no underground/there's no scene" is patently absurd, though

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

the song's important to some people

question: if the song was a really obscure aerosmith song that nobody showed a particular fondness towards, would you have felt differently about letting them use it? like did the consideration lie in aerosmith's sense of integrity about how the music is used, or in trying to protect aerosmith fans who may have felt betrayed to hear it in that context?

Mordy, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

smithy otm

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

if the song was a really obscure aerosmith song that nobody showed a particular fondness towards, would you have felt differently about letting them use it?

idk I generally err on the side of "if you have any doubt, say no" - context is important, content is important, it's not the audience's fondness as much as the particular strain of fondness (if it's a song people like 'cause it's got a good beat & a nice hook that's different from "this song meant a lot to my family in a difficult time"), you just have to follow your gut on these things & if your gut tells you "this feels like I'd be selling something I can't get back for money" then you are in fact selling out imo & that's to be avoided generally

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

but don't get me wrong if somebody's got a million bucks for "Bright Light Fright" I'm all fucking ears, there's bills to pay around here

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

I actually got to your specific objection four sentences later, aero.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's true you did but that first sentence is pretty sweeping & rong imo

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well, I would submit that the actual type of selling out you describe, and which I also agree is a Bad Thing, is also pretty vanishingly rare - I mean, how many examples can we actually cite? The Beatles song "Revolution" in a Nike ad? The Clash song (was it "London Calling"?) in a UK jeans ad? And maybe this is where we differ, possibly because I am not myself a songwriter, but I don't really think of licensing a song for a commercial (or a movie trailer, or whatever else) as being in any way out of bounds. It's never bothered me to hear a song I recognized in a commercial. It's never caused me to think more favorably of the product in question, either.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like, in order to be truly egregiously whorin' it up, for me, the artist would have to change the song to make it more friendly to the product in question. Like when Devo made "Whip It" about Swiffers. Or Dee Snider singing about carpet cleaning services (a thing which actually happened on my TV this very morning). Those kinds of things are gross and unsettling. But licensing an existing song, in its existing form, to advertise a product to which you have no personal objection (i.e. not a political campaign or beer or whatever trips your personal trigger)? I say take the money. Buy yourself somethin' nice.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah I just can't. have licensed (for low $, I should say, not enough to pay a month's rent) to a music-selling service where the ad was specifically about music & how people enjoy it, that seemed different - it was a sweet little thing that I liked, it fit. if record stores still did TV ads I'd sell the hell outta my stuff to Licorice Pizza for an ad. but who'll ever hear "Pink Moon" again and not think at some point of the VW ad? that's a disservice to a song that deserves better, I'm a romantic, the song is more important than me getting something nice, or that's true if the song's any good, anyway. if aerosmith sucked live & had trouble pulling a crowd I'd probably feel different but as it stands we kick ass and put in work and enjoy our work so I'm in a position of privilege here

cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

How about if you were asked to have a song on an ad for your fave beer? Its a beer you drink all the time, so you wouldn't be advertising something you dont actually use. Would you license a song then?

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Totally fair, and I'm not gonna even try to convince you you're wrong. I, on the other hand, would take the Fay Weldon deal in a fucking heartbeat.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

this is probably as good a place as any to admit that while i am glad that laurie anderson is making $$$ every time o superman comes on my television while some dude uses a digital camera to shoot a skydiving fashion shoot a little part of me dies inside

I want L'interieur chicken, not Hausu chicken (jjjusten), Thursday, 24 May 2012 17:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

because Some Dude took the photo?

it looks like something rupert the bear would wear (Algerian Goalkeeper), Thursday, 24 May 2012 18:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

(I specify metal because there's always the counterexample of the noise scene, which is willfully obscurantist because it's basically a cranky, reactionary, fuck-you-Dad gesture against the larger society. Which is fine. Pat them on the head and leave them alone.)

this is undoubtedly true for some noise folks but I think you're oversimplifying a bit too much here to make a larger point. which I suspect you realize - aren't fushitsusha one of your favorite bands? the aesthetic they're working is not cranky or reactionary in the least imo. more spiritual and tv spots really wold take something away from that. (tho a keiji haino doritos commercial would be pretty hilarious.)

(⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Thursday, 24 May 2012 20:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

When I say noise I mean Wolf Eyes, Prurient etc. I don't actually think Haino considers himself a "noise" artist, and I've never understood why he gets called that. To me he's a psychedelic guitar hero on a par with Randy Holden and even Hendrix. And his non-guitar stuff isn't "noise" either - it's extremely spiritual, as you say. I make fun of metal bands for using the word "ritual" to describe their gigs, but I've seen Haino performances for which that term would apply 100%.

誤訳侮辱, Thursday, 24 May 2012 21:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

So, I've actually done work for Scion AV, and spoken to the artists in question. From what I gather, a lot of them actually prefer Scion to record labels – they fly them around, book the shows, pay to put them in nice hotels, and in the case of the EP series, they foot the studio time and distribution and don't really expect anything in return other than getting to slap their logo on it. Nobody I've spoken to actually seems to know how this is supposed to equal profit, but from what I understand the executive behind the AV stuff is actually a genuine metal fan, and they get legit people to curate their events. I guess it's just a way to get the name out there (and, compared to the cost of putting together commercials and buying airtime, probably fairly cost-effective). And hell, I guess it works to an extent – when I was looking for a new car, I actually did look at Scions before I realized I couldn't actually fit into any of them. Yeah, it's corporate sponsorship. But weirdly, they've actually been doing a good enough job that at this point I would venture to say that they have earned some metal cred.

The Devil's Panini Machine (J3ff T.), Thursday, 24 May 2012 21:45 (1 year ago) Permalink


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