yeah, i think you're right. martin probably had a legal right to defend himself against the threat seemingly posed by zimmerman. and if martin took advantage of that permission, then it gave zimmerman the legal right to defend himself against martin. "stand your ground" seems to provide a legal excuse for war in the streets.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Thursday, 17 May 2012 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
this conversation is exactly why this law is so fucked up (that is, self-cancelling).
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
Ah, but does that law make it OK to hit people or only shoot them? These distinctions are very important!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
if shooting is okay i find it tough to believe that less than lethal forms of self defense wouldn't be, but idk the stand your ground laws are some nonsense to begin with
― arby's, Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:46 (eleven years ago) link
IIRC, you can shoot anyone in defense who is attacking you with a blunt or sharp instrument, but it's against the law to defend yourself with anything but a gun.
Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the the law is that fucking stupid.
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
I can imagine the myopic gun lobby shills that wrote the law were probably all "who cares about anything other than guns? If everyone carried a gun, you wouldn't need to punch, so problem solved!"
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
cue scene from raiders of the lost ark
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
what about when you're out of ammo
oh i guess switch to chainsaw
― good men like my father, or president truman (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:59 (eleven years ago) link
Then you throw the gun at them. Haven't you ever seen a gangster movie?
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, 17 May 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
If chainsaws were outlawed, only outlaws would carry chainsaws.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 May 2012 19:04 (eleven years ago) link
I wouldn't be surprised if the gun lobby tried to make it illegal to throw away a gun, at someone or otherwise.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 May 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
Even Superman knows that it's when they throw the gun that you're in the most danger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGf1r8-Snss#t=59s
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Thursday, 17 May 2012 19:09 (eleven years ago) link
omg so fake that dudes head would have exploded like a watermelon getting hit if superman hit him IRL
― the late great, Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Considering knives and squirt guns -- but not concealed firearms -- are banned for the GOP convention, I wouldn't be surprised either.
― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
the leaks in this are insane, totally benefiting the defense
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:16 (eleven years ago) link
Trayvon was high
So legally, you must bring a gun to a knife fight?
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:17 (eleven years ago) link
Trayvon Martin: world's first violent pot smoker.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:26 (eleven years ago) link
Man, case closed. I saw Reefer Madness. That mary jane turns you into a raving maniac.
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:27 (eleven years ago) link
the drug THC
― ♆ (gr8080), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:50 (eleven years ago) link
the drug thx
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:54 (eleven years ago) link
americans need to figure out a special way to spell the word "drug" so that it has fangs and blood dripping from it
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:55 (eleven years ago) link
drugula
― pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Thursday, 17 May 2012 23:10 (eleven years ago) link
This isn't going to go the right way, is it?
― windborne grey frogs (dowd), Friday, 18 May 2012 01:02 (eleven years ago) link
there is no right way
― twittering spinster (k3vin k.), Friday, 18 May 2012 01:05 (eleven years ago) link
My takeaway of this is that Captain Crime Watch reported the kid to the police, they told him they would handle it and to stand down but he decided to take more intiative. He followed the kid in his car and either he exited the vehicle to confront the kid or the kid confronted him about why he was being followed. The confrontation got physical, the kid was giving it to him good and in the midst of the melee he pulls out his gun shoots the kid. Does that jibe with the facts? Anything I'm missing.
― All kinds of heinous things, Friday, 18 May 2012 01:49 (eleven years ago) link
really good summation All kinds of heinous things, thanks for the post.
― J0rdan S., Friday, 18 May 2012 01:49 (eleven years ago) link
What frustrates me is, if Z gets away with this law why don't women who kill their partners in self defense after years of beatings, threats etc? How many times must a woman go to the authorities and say "I am in fear of my fucking LIFE here" and be ignored til shes forced to take matters into her own hands, but when she does, it seems mostly she goes to jail as a result? But one white guy chases down one black kid ONCE, kills him because hes being attacked (if true) and thats ok? FFS.
― Pureed Moods (Trayce), Friday, 18 May 2012 11:47 (eleven years ago) link
That happens all the time, in Hollywood.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 12:54 (eleven years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Doublejeopardyposter.jpg/220px-Doublejeopardyposter.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 12:55 (eleven years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Sleeping_With_The_Enemy.jpg/215px-Sleeping_With_The_Enemy.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 May 2012 12:56 (eleven years ago) link
Jordan when you were in preschool what sort of grade did you get in the "plays well with others" category?
― a parker full of poseys (Stevie D(eux)), Friday, 18 May 2012 12:56 (eleven years ago) link
What frustrates me is, if Z gets away with this law why don't women who kill their partners in self defense after years of beatings, threats etc? How many times must a woman go to the authorities and say "I am in fear of my fucking LIFE here" and be ignored til shes forced to take matters into her own hands, but when she does, it seems mostly she goes to jail as a result? But one white guy chases down one black kid ONCE, kills him because hes being attacked (if true) and thats ok? FFS. --Pureed Moods (Trayce)
Just happened last week in FL as a matter of fact, woman sentenced to years for firing a warning shot.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 18 May 2012 14:16 (eleven years ago) link
This is fucked up. Way to be assholes.
http://www.egotripland.com/trayvoning-internet-fad/
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 25 May 2012 21:25 (eleven years ago) link
ugh
― The Reverend, Friday, 25 May 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
someone should stomp on that motherfucker's head.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 25 May 2012 22:11 (eleven years ago) link
or how about not
― The Reverend, Saturday, 26 May 2012 06:55 (eleven years ago) link
oh that Marissa Alexander case is maddening. Fuck Florida forever. (sorry Alfred)
― thillrer (loves laboured breathing), Sunday, 27 May 2012 21:35 (eleven years ago) link
how do we know trayvon wasn't on bath salts? and where's your liberal outrage and your al sharpton when a black man eats an innocent man's face?
― the late great, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:24 (eleven years ago) link
putting on a bib iirc
― jump them into a gang - into the absurd (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
is there a South Park episode about this yet
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
Shockingly, no.
― Quiet Desperation, LLC (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 29 May 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
George Zimmerman: The Most Likely Scenario
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/5/27/44552/1872
The state is unlikely to prevail in arguing Zimmerman was the aggressor because to be the aggressor, Zimmerman had to contemporaneously provoke the force Martin used against him. Zimmerman's profiling of Martin and call to the non-emergency number were not contemporaneous with Martin's attack. Even if the state could convince a judge or jury that Zimmerman was following Martin, rather than walking back to his car, rendering his pursuit a contemporaneous act, it is not an act that provokes Martin's use of force against him. Demanding someone account for their presence does not provoke the use of force. Even if it could be construed to be provocation for using force, all it means is Zimmerman had to attempt reasonable means to extricate himself before using deadly force in response. W-6's steadfast insistence that Zimmerman was struggling to get up and out from under Trayvon, right before the shot went off, fulfills that requirement. Zimmerman will say the same. And no witnesses saw anything different.
Zimmerman should prevail on classic self-defense at trial regardless of stand your ground. Raising stand your ground before trial gives him the possibility of a quicker win, and the opportunity to preview the state's strategy before it gets to a jury.
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
think it's important to remember that the big issue was that there even be a trial, not a conviction.
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
yes i agree
― goole, Wednesday, 30 May 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
otoh hand, it's likely the main reason there was no trial in the first place is that no one thought charges against zimmerman would actually lead to conviction
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 17:40 (eleven years ago) link
cops don't think that way
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
and they didn't arrest him
can't charge somebody who hasn't been arrested
true, but i assume the cops would have arrested him if it had read as anything other than self-defense to them.
― spextor vs bextor (contenderizer), Wednesday, 30 May 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link