The Associates: Have the years been kind?

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I only just heard of the Associates but have known their work for sometime ever since I first heard the jingly goodness of Party Fears Two, which was endlessly repeated during the end credits of Radio 4's "Weekending" show for most of the 80s and early 90s.

I was pestering people in the office by humming the tune to see if anybody knew what it was but nobody knew. Then just the other day they played it on advert for the CD "Alternative Eighties" so I had to buy it. Now my mind is at rest! Strange CD, mind.

Zooty McFrooty, Wednesday, 29 May 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Since this has come up again, let me say (again) just how amazing the demos album 'Double Hipness' is.

Dr. C, Wednesday, 29 May 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...
i've had kitchen person buzzing around my brain for two days now

gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 02:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...
I needed something, I was at a loss, I decided now was the time for Sulk. "No" stalking and floating out of my speaker like a delirious revenant and all is again right with the world.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 03:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

i might play it when i get home too

gaz (gaz), Monday, 22 September 2003 04:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

just some info for hardcore associates fans: there's two spanish bands, hidrogenesse and astrud (actually their whole label, austrohungaro.com) that are completely fond of billy mckenzie's music and vocal style, and they do it really well and get a new sound out of their tribute to the associates. i absolutely recommend it to all.

joan vich (joan vich), Monday, 22 September 2003 11:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

Anyone got a take on Glamour Chase, which indeed found its release last year?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Monday, 22 September 2003 13:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

"The Glamour Chase" was well worth the wait - even if the impact of it was inevitably dulled from hearing various MP3s over the last few years.

It's probably a better album than "Wild & Lonely", but probably less than essential if you've already got the Rankine-era albums.

I seem to remember that there is still supposed to be another album's worth of unreleased Boris Blank collaborations. That must be the last of the releasable stuff in the vaults.

With regard to the posthumous releases, I would have prefered "Smile"-esque compilations of the Winter Academy and Outerpol albums, as opposed to the scattershot approach of "Beyond The Sun" et al.

BTW, I've still got a sealed copy of the deleted "Eurocentric" if anyone is after it.

Marcel Gallingez (Marcel Gallingez), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Eurocentric, that was his solo album followup to Wild and Lonely? I am definitely interested...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Do you mean like this. I'd love one, but I have mouths to feed.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 22 September 2003 16:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

Blimey!

Didn't realise it was already worth £130. At this rate it's going to overtake my other two 'nest egg' records (Radiohead's "Drill" EP (vinyl) and XTC's "Wrapped in Grey" CD single).

Ned, you might be confusing "Eurocentric" with "Outernational" - Billy's only 'proper' solo album, released in 1992. I've got one of those as well, but it's far too good to sell...

Marcel Gallingez (Marcel Gallingez), Monday, 22 September 2003 17:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ah, clarity is mine. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 September 2003 17:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
i have had 4th drawer down burnt for months, and after spending all of that time trying to parse the music, i realized i have no idea what the lyrics mean at all. i have found a website with the the actual words, which has made the music seem even more cryptic to me.

it still sounds fresh as hell to my ears btw.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 05:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

actually not all of the songs are frustrating, but explain "property girl" if you can. "no managerial talks"?

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

i happened to hear "tell me easter's on friday" for the first time the other week, on a compilation tape. i've been completely in love with it ever since, so i'll definitely try to pick up an associates album before long.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

i am thinking that at this point, it seems the most essential are:
1. Fourth Drawer Down
2. Sulk
3. Radio One Sessions Volume One

all remastered in the last three years.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

thanks! i may have to resort to amazon, i don't think i've ever seen any of their albums on sale around here - but then i live in a particularly un-musical town.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

Aaron OTM. Get them. OR ELSE.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

where do you live? i am in the DC area in the u.s. and i am having a hard time getting them even though i work for a record store. i had to write up a manual special order for them off of our main data system, and i might not be able to get them at all (which means no discount !), which is strange because we are able to order, stock and carry other strange fruit releases. amazon seems to have them though.

ned any help on the lyrics?

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 06:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

tucson. possibly the one major city in america without a tower records!

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 29 October 2003 07:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...
Is there ever going to be a re-release of the original Affectionate Punch without the synth overdubs? That may be my favorite album of theirs.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dan, Dave T. made Tim Paxton make me a CD copy of that with color-copied artwork. Yes, it's fantastic. Esp. given all the other reissues, I suspect it's a rights thing.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dan, I've got the original Fiction vinyl, and I'd be happy to make you a tape if you want.

Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have the LP, but thanks anyway. I just mean it deserves release. Don't know about rights as the 2nd version of The Affectionate Punch had a CD release.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...
"Here's a message from Jude of the MacKenzie Estate regarding The Affectionate Punch, as sent to Associates News List by Francois 30 Aug 2004: "The (...) original version of The Affectionate Punch has moved a stage closer to becoming a reality. As I'm sure you knew, the master tape of the original 1980 album had been lost without a trace since the 1982 remixed version supplanted it as the official release. While it is possible to master CDs from vinyl (with varying degrees of success), this is no real substitute for a 24bit digital master of the original tape. We were therefore astonished and elated when a duplicate tape of the original master recently turned up in Germany. It seems that the duplicate was made for Polydor's European pressing of the original album in 1980. It then went into storage at the pressing plant, where it had languished unnoticed for the past twenty four years. As such, the tape was apparently in good condition. It has now been transferred to a DAT, which has been brought to London to await remastering. This is not the end of the process by any means, but Polydor, who own the rights to the album, have indicated that they are keen to go ahead with a reissue deal. Negotiations notwithstanding, we can now be sure that WHEN The Affectionate Punch sees a new dawn, it will be in all it's morning glory. The October release date posted by Amazon was a provisional, somewhat over-zealous announcement on their part. In fact we're using the 25th Anniversary of the album's original release – ie: next year – to help Polydor find a good commercial reason to go ahead with it. Alan, Michael and myself have yet to agree new terms with Polydor, so there is no realistic chance of a release this year. Also, no decisions can be taken until the CD master is approved. But as I have said before, it is only a matter of time. Jude."

cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 10:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

(Probably not the appropriate place to ask, but were Scars -as mentioned on the flyer upthread- any good? Saw their album recently and it looked a tad dodgy, like some sort of Drum Theatre atrocity (well maybe not quite that bad) but now I see them in such fine company and I'm starting to hum and ho...)

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 10:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

they had an early release on Fast which is essential, it's on some of the Fast Mutant Pop and Rigour Discipline Disgust type comps, 2 songs called Adultery and Horrorshow. The album, while not lacking in some charm, isn't nearly as good.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 13:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Noted and filed away. Now for the Associates = ABOUT GODDAMN TIME. But I'm glad that it has been provoked by this happy find.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 14:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

How does the original compare to the remixed version anyway? Is it really better?

JC (JC A.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 01:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

i like the first one! but i had it for a while and grew to love it and then of course the "the way we really wanted it" one came out and its a bit of a disappointment to be honest.

gaz (gaz), Thursday, 7 October 2004 01:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I remember liking it better enough to give away the remixed version but that was a long time ago.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 02:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

this thread's revival reminds me that JC's retraction above is one of my all time favourite things EVER on ILM

Paul (scifisoul), Thursday, 7 October 2004 02:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

Billy McKenzie and Marc Almond are my girlfriend's favourite singers -I can only add that I just would like to sing like Billy.

Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 06:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

I like both versions a great deal.

Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

Billy McKenzie and Marc Almond are my girlfriend's favourite singers

You are to please tell her that my estimation of her has grown even stronger.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...
actually not all of the songs are frustrating, but explain "property girl" if you can. "no managerial talks"?

"Mona Property Girl" (and its superior incarnation "A Girl Named Property") should be pretty obvious...it's a rambling about females being looked upon as Earth-mothers/all-giving goddesses and having tribute paid to them by naming things after them as a sort of worship or as a means of comfort or company (like the song says) taken to silly proportions... ("Mona property girl...Mona property world...Mona office blocks...") I think it's a funny song, probably my favourite by Associates.

Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Monday, 25 October 2004 22:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

thanks. ive never been good at parsing lyrics as opposed to prose which is maybe why i like Basic Channel so much hehe.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Monday, 25 October 2004 23:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

A personal shout-out for Double Hipness leftover "Geese" is in order — great, soaring melody and Levine-esque post-punk guitar...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 15:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...
Oh god I love this band. (Just finished listening to the first disc of Double Hipness in a long while.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

Tum! Tra-la-la, tra, tra-la-la-la la-la...
Tum! Tra-la-la, tra, tra-la-la-la lum!

Ian Riese-Moraine has a grenade, that pineapple's not just a toy! (Eastern Mantr, Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

BAP DE LA BAP

(Though at this second I listen me to "Mona Property Girl.")

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

I just played the first 2 LPs recently, first time hearing em in entirety, and hafta say B.McK's vocals annoy the krap outta me at least half the time... Good grooves tho.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

The original version of The Affectionate Punch comes out on CD this summer, according to a forward from an Associates mailing list.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

Good, good...

Michael Dempsey gave a cryptic reference to further tracks for release at the end of his brief liner notes for Double Hipness, though I wonder if he was more referring to the still unreleased state of Affectionate at that point. Still though, hmm.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh and ARGH HOW GOOD IS THE START TO "TELL ME EASTER'S ON FRIDAY." I mean, the rest of the song as well, but that swirling high twirl of twisted sound might as well be end of nineties glitch bits as momentous/portentous intro without being stereotypically *either.*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the music for it's really pretty if you disregard the walloping stomp of John Murphy's drums (which I definitely enjoy, admittedly).

Ian Riese-Moraine has a grenade, that pineapple's not just a toy! (Eastern Mantr, Sunday, 24 April 2005 20:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

Recently got the BBC sessions as well, amazing amazing version of Waiting For the Loveboat. Just checked amazon and am confused because I coulda swore there was a singles CD comp w/ Ice Cream Factory on it, but the comp there doesn't have it. That's my fave. It does have Kites though, also wonderful.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 24 April 2005 20:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

i pulled out sulk yesterday after reading the scotland chapter in sr's p-punk book, and good god i can't believe this EVER charted, however briefly. the whole album is on overload.

strng hlkngtn, Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

nude spoons EUPHORIAAA EUPHO-O-O-O-RIA-A-A-A-A!

(i love sulk, yes i do)

joseph (joseph), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

I remember Simon getting really excited when I played Party Fears Two at my old party around the time he was starting his book, I think.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

I still vividly remember the fist time I heard "White Car in Germany" in college. I'd checked out the LP from my college radio station's library, and I was listening on headphones in my dingy dorm room since my roommate was sleeping. It was definitely due to them being talked about on ILM, too. Those first few totally alien synth sludgenotes, that cough syrup tempo ("is this the wrong speed?"), the way it kind of zombily jerks into that stately melody, and then Mackenzie's unreal voice rising up out of it. It was a complete and total shock to the system, and unlike anything I'd ever encountered. Still gives me chills to think of that initial experience...

Clarke B., Tuesday, 16 August 2011 14:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

That's great that The Glamour Chase is being reissued, it's such a great read that totally made me fall in love with their music and Billy as a person.

Please forgive this long-winded post but Billy is my favourite singer ever and one of the few artists I get really carried away about.

I would say The Affectionate Punch, Sulk and Fourth Drawer Down are the absolute essentials. After that things get a little more tricky as there are plenty of amazing songs spread out over some really average albums.

Perhaps is mostly great, it's very polished and a lot more straight forward than the first three albums. Helicopter Helicopter and Schampout are the first songs he did that are just really bad. The second side is a lot stronger as it has Breakfast which is an incredible ballad with one of his best vocals. The Stranger In Your Voice has one of the best and most ridiculous string arrangements in a song I can think of. The Best of You might be my favourite track, would love to hear the version they did with Annie Lennox.

The Glamour Chase is mainly bland late 80's pop but it does contain Empires of the Heart which sounds like it should have been a Bond theme. The reissue with Perhaps on the other disc is worth having for some of the extra tracks, mainly Take Me To The Girl and The Rythm Divine which he did with Yello.

Wild & Lonely is his worst album, terrible production ruins some fairly good songs especially on Just Can't Say Goodbye, Fire to Ice and the title track. Some of the songs are just so half-baked, good production couldn't help them.

Outernational from 92 is a lot better but hardly essential. It was released as his first solo album but is really just the same as the previous three albums, Billy working with various session musicians. He was really obsessed with the dance music at the time so he tried to make an album in that style but of course the best song is the ballad, Baby. His vocal on that song is really stunning, it should have been a huge hit.

Beyond The Sun is an album of songs he had been working on in the last years of his life. This is easily his best album after the first three Associates albums. He was mainly into dance music again at this point but this is mainly full of beautiful ballads especially Nocturne VII which is a heartbreaking song. Give Me Time is yet another song that would have made a great Bond theme. Three Gypsies In a Restaurant is the only dud on the album, sadly that was the stuff Billy was into making at that time but he was never one to go for the safe choices with his material.

Eurocentric is another posthumous release. It's a good collection, a mix of dance songs and some more really moving ballads. The ballads are much more enjoyable. His version of Wild is the Wind is the highlight, but Liberty Lounge is a great 70's glam influenced gem.

The Radio One Sessions albums are both excellent. Party Fears 2 is my favourite song ever but the track A Severe Bout Of Career Insecurity is probably the song that sums up everything that was amazing about Billy as a performer. It sounds like he made the lyrics up as he went along and the way he says, "And It Goes To Show All You Want Is Above The Knee" is just Godlike. A lot of the other versions on here are really great to hear, the slow version of Take Me To The Girl in particular is very charming.

The Double Hipness coompilation is such an interesting mix of their material. The early demos are so odd and full of sax and bizarre lyrics. I still think The Cardiacs must have been taking notes from those songs. The slightly later demos are really good, showing how quickly they started writing great material. A lot of these ended up fleshed out on The Affectionate Punch but my personal favourite is Geese which is one of the simples and most catchy tunes they ever wrote. The second disc is also very mixed, there's some good stuff on there that he did with Alan Rankine but it sounds quite dated.

A few other tracks that are worth mentioning would be Pain In Any Language that he made with Apollo 440 in 1996, which is an epic electronic ballad. Ice Cream Factory released in 1982 as Ice Cream Factory Mackenzie Sings Orbidoig is another one-off single he did which is a really thrilling single. This is available on the Singles compilation put out a few years ago.

So as I said at the beginning of this rambling post: The essentials are The Affectionate Punch, Fourth Drawer Down, Sulk, both the BBC Radio One Sessions, Beyond The Sun, most of Perhaps and probably Double Hipness too. I would totally agree with the previous posts that there is so much to discover, buying their albums and singles was one of the most exciting periods of my life.

Kitchen Person, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 00:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

I have to disagree with Kitchen Person. I feel VERY strongly that , first: all of the songs on the ablum are top notch material. It's totally solid from a songwriting sense. While i feel the album was most definitely mis-produced overall I think Fire to Ice is on the best pop singles I"ve ever heard by any producer. Just a few listens on headphones and it becomes a relentless infection. Also the dissing of "Wild and Lonely" is unjust as well because it was the song i most immediately connected to on an emotional level. If one listens past the cheesy sequencing that seems to sit out front on most of the tracks, one hears Billy's exotic taste in soundscapes and also Billy's singing is sultry and very story-focused on this album . I would say it was the greatest album what I would say a little patience has rewarded me a lot on that album.

tednor, Wednesday, 7 March 2012 08:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Lovely T-shirt for Billy MacKenzie devotees everywhere: http://www.redbubble.com/people/andrewnimmo/works/4189594-billy-mackenzie

They use American Apparel gear so nice cuts and feel. Mine got here (across the pond... in fact across a couple of ponds) in a matter of days.

Lil' Kim Philby (Call the Cops), Thursday, 19 April 2012 09:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Apparently based on a picture the photographer took of Billy in Dundee in 1985.

Lil' Kim Philby (Call the Cops), Thursday, 19 April 2012 09:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

The Glamour Chase, a movie about Billy's life, is on youtube. So good!

Dale, dale, dale (Abbbottt), Monday, 14 May 2012 00:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, great documentary. The book it's based on is excellent.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 May 2012 00:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

what's with the dog statues? didn't notice til the end. i didn't know much about mackenzie, but that was quite good. too bad about him and rakine. and him and his mom... it's unnerving that her death could destroy him that completely...

zingzing, Monday, 14 May 2012 04:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

They're whippets, and as the doc shows, he loved them dogs.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 May 2012 04:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Never seen the documentary before. Just watching it reminds me all the reasons why he's my favourite ever popstar. Some great footage and the use of Nocturne VII at the end is truly heartbreaking.

Kitchen Person, Monday, 14 May 2012 17:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

I need to sit down one of these days to watch that Glamour Chase doco.

Anyway, have been on a bit of an Associates Youtube binge lately and came across this vid of Billy performing "You Only Live Twice". Had no idea he covered this - so great!

amusing bit at the end with Billy flirting outrageously with a very young, very smug-looking, obviously uncomfortable Jonathan Ross lol

Roz, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 17:00 (7 months ago) Permalink

I'll back up all the repping for the 'Glamour Chase' book upthread. I first read it 10 years ago just after first moving through to Dundee, was odd but nice reading a book that mentioned places I walked by every day - I lived a couple of streets from the Lyon Street flat, for example, and worked alongside people who'd known Billy to some extent.

michaellambert, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 19:06 (7 months ago) Permalink

Haven't seen if I still have my copy of the book. Not seen it in ages, and it may have been among a load of books stolen as I moved out of a place 10 years ago. Which means I should know one way or the other by now.
WAs interesting anyway, the beginning where he's wound up involved in the Howard Hughes case while travelling in the US. through the events surrounding the recording of the singles compiled on 4th Drawer Down etc etc very very good bio.

I think the lps have drifted out of print on cd again which is a major shame, the 00s reissues of Sulk, 4th Drawer Down & Affectionate Punch are all very worth getting hold of. I never got Double Hipness which i had meant to remedy but I don't think you can get it any more.

There was a compi video made of the band's tv appearances on the Yahoo list somewhere about 10 years ago that I wound up with a faulty copy of but should be good if you find a decent copy. I think bits of what's on it may be up on youtube anyway. Would like taht stuff in goood quality though. Wish somebody would release an official dvd compi with taht material on though.

& ALan Rankine is one half of the creative part of the band during the period that really counts. I think he's teaching at a Scottish university now.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:11 (7 months ago) Permalink

Double Hipness is amazing.

dan selzer, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:49 (7 months ago) Permalink

Rankine teaches at Stow College, or did the last time I checked.

There was a showing of "The Glamour Chase" at the DCA in Dundee a couple of years back with a Q+A with Rankine (mentioned upthread), who mentioned that they'd just got the rights back to the recordings, not sure if all or just the early ones. No sign of anything happening with that though.

michaellambert, Wednesday, 3 October 2012 21:51 (7 months ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

And just in case anyone is in the general vicinity of Dundee on Fri 10th May, a showing of The Glamour Chase to accompany the exhibition 'What Presence! The Rock Photography of Harry Papadopoulous' which will be running at the McMannus Galleries.

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/event/12937

michaellambert, Monday, 29 April 2013 21:46 (3 weeks ago) Permalink


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