Dude, do you ever get tired of restating what people have just said?
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:07 (twelve years ago) link
prior to seeing it, I remember the Exorcist being built up as this unbelievably terrifying thing - I knew that it involved the devil posessing a teenage girl, but I figured there was more to it than that, that it was like an epidemic, or a sign of the apocalypse, or the Devil was using her to murder people or something. And then I saw it and all she does is hurt herself, vomit guacamole, and make a priest throw himself out a window. I was like "that's IT?!? lol catholics"
xp
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:08 (twelve years ago) link
the movie seems genuinely unhinged, which I think is more what's scary about it than anything theological. It's incoherent and objectively ridiculous, but the whole thing feels out of control.
This could just as easily be a description of Poltergeist. Which, to me, works almost as well on a lot of the same levels as The Exorcist (minus the whole "losing control of one's body" horror thing).
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:09 (twelve years ago) link
it would be scary if it was YOUR kid or YOUR priest.
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:09 (twelve years ago) link
def prefer Rosemary's Baby and the Omenxxxp
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:09 (twelve years ago) link
Bah sorry, that was pretty rude, you do just seem to be acting as ILX's commentary track at the moment, which I know, it's a free country and all.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
as an aside wr2 the omen -- it was only a year ago when i realized that the 2nd Doctor (from Doctor Who) was one of the priests who got snuffed. from that point on, i was wondering when Jon Pertwee (the 3d Doctor) would show up.
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
uh, i just did that (clearly), but i don't think it's something i make a habit of. gather that this is "take shots at contenderizer" day, though, so have ats.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:12 (twelve years ago) link
will dial it down a notch, as the message is getting too loud to ignore
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:13 (twelve years ago) link
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:08 PM (3 minutes ago)
see, I don't get that. why does something have to be apocalyptic and over the top to be terrifying?
burstyn acts as a stand-in for the non-believing audience (and by that I mean the entire audience, regardless of faith - I certainly don't believe in demonic possession). she's a modern, rational woman whose daughter is suddenly attacked by forces beyond her control, forces she doesn't even believe in. that's the starting point of all horror. and the realness of her fatigue is another thing the movie does a great job of portraying.
I find the 'big, scary evil ol' Satan' thing to be one of the least-engaging horror tropes.
― Troll 3 (Pillbox), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:00 PM (1 minute ago)
so no evil dead for you?
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:13 (twelve years ago) link
i think that using the fear of something turning you into something monstrous is the lynchpin of idk over half of horror movies tho so i dont see that as some sorta big talking point in favor of the exorcist or other possession based films really
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:17 (twelve years ago) link
basically its kind of like a zombie film except no one else seems to catch the virus which is prob the real root of the problem for me
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:18 (twelve years ago) link
p sure Evil Dead is on some Lovecraftian pagan demons of the ancient world type thing, which is frankly much cooler & far more badass & scary than lame old Satan.
― Troll 3 (Pillbox), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:19 (twelve years ago) link
one devil many forms
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:20 (twelve years ago) link
Actually, now that I've just realized the ways in which Poltergeist and The Exorcist are similar, this brings up a really fascinating topic in horror movies (which is barely ever even implied in horror films, to the extent that it's explored at all): this idea of taking a completely fucked-up situation over which the protagonists have no control and attempting to throw a net of order (however supernatural in origin) over it. "Shit's going crazy in my house! Must be poltergeists!" "My daughter has turned into a monster! Must be a demon!" And then an expert is brought in and the situation is handled. But my question in these situations is always, "Who says this person is any more of an expert with unexplainable stuff than, say, John Edwards or the Ghost Hunters douchebags? Who says they have any real grasp on or control over this completely bugfuck situation?" It's rare that a horror movie has the courage to say, "Y'know what? None of these people have a clue, and this horrible stuff is just gonna keep happening until it stops." So I often just choose to interpret those films as if that were the case.
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:20 (twelve years ago) link
plus satan is always badass
like if you met a kid named satan, you'd be like badass! I don't know how I'd feel about a kid named yog-sothoth
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:21 (twelve years ago) link
something is in your child and scientists are baffled. it knows your weaknesses and has spooky powers.
plus there is some vague scary shit out in the desert and man this thing is OLD
this thing claims to be an all-time bad guy (actually a multitude of bad guys) from another dimension
some priest from an old religeon walks into your house and starts chanting in a dead language AND SHIT GETS REAL
PS your kid's head is turning around 360 and she is stabbing herself in the crotch with some weird sacrificial symbol derived from an execution device
― He's sick of the Swiss. He don't like em. (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:21 (twelve years ago) link
religion
― He's sick of the Swiss. He don't like em. (Austerity Ponies), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
why does something have to be apocalyptic and over the top to be terrifying?
bear in mind that was teenaged-me's reaction I was describing. but yeah, my conception of the Devil - the Ultimate All Powerful Force of Evil - was on the grand end of the scale. I was not expecting a gritty 70s realist sort of approach. I was expecting something mind-meltingly diabolical.
xxp
― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
Man, contenderizer, don't pay any attention to people being dickish. You bring good value to threads.
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:23 (twelve years ago) link
I don't know how I'd feel about a kid named yog-sothoth
u racist
― Troll 3 (Pillbox), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
the omen kind of perpetually ruined the viability of the first name Damien. just sayin'
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:24 (twelve years ago) link
well, i wouldn't say that the possession-fear that makes the exorcist scary on the "it could happen to you" level is unique, just that it seems like legitimate scariness fodder.
the idea that a zombie would have to be some sort of plague creature to be scary is odd to me. i think you could build and excellent horror story around just one. w.w. jacobs did just that in "the monkey's paw", still the scariest zombie story i can think of.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
^ that in response to jjj
i mean, i grew up friendly w/ a kid whose first name was Damien (he was born just before the omen was released) and yes he caught lotsa shit for his name.
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
man when the exorcist places we are gonna have nothing to say
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:25 (twelve years ago) link
How about "Exorcist II: The Heretic was robbed"?
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:28 (twelve years ago) link
have no fear there will always be something to say about the exorcist.
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:29 (twelve years ago) link
wish it had been murdered
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:29 (twelve years ago) link
But my question in these situations is always, "Who says this person is any more of an expert with unexplainable stuff than, say, John Edwards or the Ghost Hunters douchebags? Who says they have any real grasp on or control over this completely bugfuck situation?" It's rare that a horror movie has the courage to say, "Y'know what? None of these people have a clue, and this horrible stuff is just gonna keep happening until it stops."
can anyone suggest good examples of movies that work like this? would love to see an entity/poltergeist/paranormal activity/insidious-type movie where the scientific and spiritual "experts" are completely useless.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
it's body horror as much as any early cronenberg flick
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 4:02 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 4:20 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
...this is why "body horror" is one of my favorites -- it's the horror we CAN'T ESCAPE because it is inside the slowly rotting vessel that we have no choice but to call home if we want to keep living. Being stuck inside the same decaying body for ~ 7 decades is a horrifying concept to me. Compound that by whatever our brains tell us to do and who needs monsters?
― game of crones (La Lechera), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:30 (twelve years ago) link
well, that is the situation for the romero night of the living dead franchise ...
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:31 (twelve years ago) link
aside from telling non-zombified folks to shoot the zombies in the head and burn the corpses, the zombies just keep comin' and shit.
― Boris Kutyurkokhov (Eisbaer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:32 (twelve years ago) link
tru, i meant specifically wr2 haunting/possession type tales
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:36 (twelve years ago) link
My own sense is that The Exorcist is a cinch for Top 10, and that Friday the 13th would never make it. That admittedly reflects my own preference, but still, I'd bet money on it. I'm going to do the same thing, make a predicted-Top-10 list and hold off posting till Eric's finished. I might be way off, but I suspect this is one instance where my own list will fall squarely in the middle of whatever amounts to consensus (give or take the occasional recent film).
― clemenza, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:37 (twelve years ago) link
like one of the things i liked about ju-on was that there wasn't much attempt to explain this curse. it just existed. people would get caught up in it and then die, and that was that. same goes for the spiral curse in uzumaki.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:38 (twelve years ago) link
It wasn't Satan in The Excorist. It was an ancient Babylonian demon named Pazuzu.
Austerity Ponies OTM. Also this:
i think it's that more that unknown forces can force you out of your own body, replacing you with some kind of hideous monster
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:58 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:38 (twelve years ago) link
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:20 PM (8 minutes ago)
things don't end well for the exorcists themselves, plus the demon is ultimately defeated through a battle of wits rather than any verse from a prayer book or authority from the church
also iirc the experts in poltergeist didn't provide a long term solution to their ghost infestation, hope they got a refund
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:39 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah the first round of Poltergeist scientists were useless, except for knowing the little lady.
― Polly biscuit face (carl agatha), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:40 (twelve years ago) link
"this house is clean"
pffffft
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:43 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, but poltergeist is still ultimately a film about an evil that can be named and understood, about which things can be known. curious about the existence of movies in which that isn't allowed.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:44 (twelve years ago) link
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:23 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
^
― Chris S, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:46 (twelve years ago) link
thanks deric & chris, needed a little support there
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
a horror movie with no naming or understanding would be pretty boring, it would just be like an hour and a half of people dying and other people saying "why do they keep dying aaaaaaaagh!"
― congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:47 (twelve years ago) link
contenderizer, honestly you're the only person making any sense on that Kitty Pryde thread as far as I'm concerned
― Chris S, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, it's an odd idea, i admit. there are some recent-ish japanese films that tend in that direction, but it's not common in american cinema.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:49 (twelve years ago) link
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:44 PM (1 minute ago)
carnival of souls
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:50 (twelve years ago) link
Alice Sweet Alice doesn't quite explain the uncanny nature of the evil at work iirc
― Chris S, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:52 (twelve years ago) link
which makes it much more disturbing
yeah, good point (re carnival of souls). arguably the shining, too.
― The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:53 (twelve years ago) link