Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

and the timeline if i'm remembering it right is 'fight,' 'zimmerman goes back to his truck to get gun,' shooting

that wasn't my understanding, but maybe i've missed something. i was under the impression that zimmerman's story is that he shot martin while martin was on top of and still attacking him.

yeah i agree w/ aero & DJP on this one. again, even with that account, we probably know less than the jury did

― dharunravir (k3vin k.), Sunday, May 13, 2012

based on my limited experience of jury service, we probably know more

Wouldn't the 'stand your ground' law apply to TM? Regardless of if he even started the fight or what, it seems like a law that says "You can defend yourself if threatened, to the point of fatally shooting the threat" would apply if you were being followed around by a gun-toting guy in a car and then pursued on foot.

yeah, i think you're right. martin probably had a legal right to defend himself against the threat seemingly posed by zimmerman. and if martin took advantage of that permission, then it gave zimmerman the legal right to defend himself against martin. "stand your ground" seems to provide a legal excuse for war in the streets.

this conversation is exactly why this law is so fucked up (that is, self-cancelling).

Ah, but does that law make it OK to hit people or only shoot them? These distinctions are very important!

if shooting is okay i find it tough to believe that less than lethal forms of self defense wouldn't be, but idk the stand your ground laws are some nonsense to begin with

IIRC, you can shoot anyone in defense who is attacking you with a blunt or sharp instrument, but it's against the law to defend yourself with anything but a gun.

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the the law is that fucking stupid.

I can imagine the myopic gun lobby shills that wrote the law were probably all "who cares about anything other than guns? If everyone carried a gun, you wouldn't need to punch, so problem solved!"

cue scene from raiders of the lost ark

what about when you're out of ammo

oh i guess switch to chainsaw

Then you throw the gun at them. Haven't you ever seen a gangster movie?

If chainsaws were outlawed, only outlaws would carry chainsaws.

I wouldn't be surprised if the gun lobby tried to make it illegal to throw away a gun, at someone or otherwise.

Even Superman knows that it's when they throw the gun that you're in the most danger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGf1r8-Snss#t=59s

omg so fake that dudes head would have exploded like a watermelon getting hit if superman hit him IRL

IIRC, you can shoot anyone in defense who is attacking you with a blunt or sharp instrument, but it's against the law to defend yourself with anything but a gun.

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the the law is that fucking stupid.

― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, May 17, 2012 2:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Considering knives and squirt guns -- but not concealed firearms -- are banned for the GOP convention, I wouldn't be surprised either.

the leaks in this are insane, totally benefiting the defense

Trayvon was high

So legally, you must bring a gun to a knife fight?

Trayvon Martin: world's first violent pot smoker.

Man, case closed. I saw Reefer Madness. That mary jane turns you into a raving maniac.

the drug THC

the drug thx

americans need to figure out a special way to spell the word "drug" so that it has fangs and blood dripping from it

drugula

This isn't going to go the right way, is it?

there is no right way

My takeaway of this is that Captain Crime Watch reported the kid to the police, they told him they would handle it and to stand down but he decided to take more intiative. He followed the kid in his car and either he exited the vehicle to confront the kid or the kid confronted him about why he was being followed. The confrontation got physical, the kid was giving it to him good and in the midst of the melee he pulls out his gun shoots the kid. Does that jibe with the facts? Anything I'm missing.

really good summation All kinds of heinous things, thanks for the post.

What frustrates me is, if Z gets away with this law why don't women who kill their partners in self defense after years of beatings, threats etc? How many times must a woman go to the authorities and say "I am in fear of my fucking LIFE here" and be ignored til shes forced to take matters into her own hands, but when she does, it seems mostly she goes to jail as a result? But one white guy chases down one black kid ONCE, kills him because hes being attacked (if true) and thats ok? FFS.

That happens all the time, in Hollywood.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Doublejeopardyposter.jpg/220px-Doublejeopardyposter.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Sleeping_With_The_Enemy.jpg/215px-Sleeping_With_The_Enemy.jpg

Jordan when you were in preschool what sort of grade did you get in the "plays well with others" category?

What frustrates me is, if Z gets away with this law why don't women who kill their partners in self defense after years of beatings, threats etc? How many times must a woman go to the authorities and say "I am in fear of my fucking LIFE here" and be ignored til shes forced to take matters into her own hands, but when she does, it seems mostly she goes to jail as a result? But one white guy chases down one black kid ONCE, kills him because hes being attacked (if true) and thats ok? FFS.
--Pureed Moods (Trayce)

Just happened last week in FL as a matter of fact, woman sentenced to years for firing a warning shot.

This is fucked up. Way to be assholes.

http://www.egotripland.com/trayvoning-internet-fad/

ugh

someone should stomp on that motherfucker's head.

or how about not

oh that Marissa Alexander case is maddening. Fuck Florida forever. (sorry Alfred)

how do we know trayvon wasn't on bath salts? and where's your liberal outrage and your al sharpton when a black man eats an innocent man's face?

putting on a bib iirc

is there a South Park episode about this yet

Shockingly, no.

George Zimmerman: The Most Likely Scenario

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/5/27/44552/1872

The state is unlikely to prevail in arguing Zimmerman was the aggressor because to be the aggressor, Zimmerman had to contemporaneously provoke the force Martin used against him. Zimmerman's profiling of Martin and call to the non-emergency number were not contemporaneous with Martin's attack. Even if the state could convince a judge or jury that Zimmerman was following Martin, rather than walking back to his car, rendering his pursuit a contemporaneous act, it is not an act that provokes Martin's use of force against him. Demanding someone account for their presence does not provoke the use of force. Even if it could be construed to be provocation for using force, all it means is Zimmerman had to attempt reasonable means to extricate himself before using deadly force in response. W-6's steadfast insistence that Zimmerman was struggling to get up and out from under Trayvon, right before the shot went off, fulfills that requirement. Zimmerman will say the same. And no witnesses saw anything different.

Zimmerman should prevail on classic self-defense at trial regardless of stand your ground. Raising stand your ground before trial gives him the possibility of a quicker win, and the opportunity to preview the state's strategy before it gets to a jury.

think it's important to remember that the big issue was that there even be a trial, not a conviction.

yes i agree

otoh hand, it's likely the main reason there was no trial in the first place is that no one thought charges against zimmerman would actually lead to conviction

cops don't think that way