is comedy inherently conservative?

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don't you think that pretty much all art is trying to 'force' you to feel something, in very much the same way? do you never feel as if music, film, literature is trying to manipulate you emotionally as part of the experience? why judge all of comedy so negatively based on phenomena that are hardly unique to it?

pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 10:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh good, we finally got some genuinely humorless people itt to talk about comedy

judas, a homo (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 13:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

'finally'

pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha oh lex! i don't know if my initial post rises to the level of an argument. i love that you hate comedy, though.

horseshoe, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 13:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

I find it weird when ppl see heirs of Lenny Bruce in people who never address politics, or if they do they're reactionary or bigots (Sam Kinison, Stern in the '80s).

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Morbs just made one of the points I was about to mention!

I think at a certain level the news-parody shows like The Daily Show and Colbert are less subversive than confirmations of where the mainstream actually is. It's pretty uncommon that the deconstruction of the news actually pulls something out far enough to make the opposing political point; it's only illuminating how ridiculous exaggerations of viewpoints that differ from the norms really sound.

mh, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

My UK humor knowledge is kind of shallow but some of the past Chris Morris or Charlie Brooker projects are ones that I would say were more acerbic but also aimed at bringing things back to a healthy norm.

mh, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Colbert comes much closer to Bruce than Stewart ever does, at least on TV, since playing his Fox-y character is not unrelated to LB "relaxing his colored friend" at a party by saying, "Let's face it, you wouldn't want some Jew doin' it to your sister" in 1958...

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

goole, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

you know what's conservative, that recent run of Mark Twain Prize winners. God Almighty.

I'm less bothered by the "conservatism" of the picks as much as the fact that the last three have been relatively young. Mort Sahl's not going to be around forever.

Carrie Antwoord (jaymc), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

They want to make their picks "relevant," ie translate into a TV special. And Sahl would rant against Obama, we can't have that.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 14:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

can't believe I missed the part where contenderizer explains lolcats

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

the best thing about the internet is that i'm still doing it and will be forever, you only have to scroll back a little...

The term or title antichrist, in Christian theology, refers to (contenderizer), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.suck.com/daily/97/11/07/index.html

s.clover, Thursday, 17 May 2012 02:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

friend who is starting a feminist comedy troupe yelled at me for this kind of thinking btw so i retract it

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

huh, what was her line?

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

the psychological/physical rupture of a joke or gag, the very impulse to laugh, can be seen a model of the incompleteness or rupture of any system. not utopian but a spasm of happiness in a hard world etc maybe?

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

(not speaking for this person, just thinking about this again)

ergh i'm trying to think of a word that's on the tip of my tongue... social/lit theory about 'irruption' or a holiday, but it can't last. dammit my brain is fried right now. jubilee? that's not it

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

she was basically like, that is just the argument *entrenched comedy interests* make to excuse their sexist/racist/conservative jokes, and there's a way to be funny that could be loosely characterized as progressive. and then she used a joke a female comedian told in her presence about relief that a random street harasser called her fat and didn't rape her as evidence. (obvs not funny the way i've related it, but presumably funny in the actual delivery.) i don't know; i didn't argue further about whether that kind of joke still has a reactionary/conservative/whatever the fuck i think i'm talking about vibe, because i felt like a jerk doing it when she was so excited about the feminist potential of comedy. also i feel like i can't possibly be right; it's just too sweeping of a thing to think.

xxp actually i bet she would agree with that!

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

carnivalesque?

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

jouissance?

contenderizer, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

like in barthes?

contenderizer, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

CARNIVALESQUE!

yeah. shit.

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

bakhtin is all right as fucking assholes i had to read in graduate school go

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh i know all this stuff second- or thirdhand at best

it is a rule of thumb of mine not to trust people or institutions that don't get a joke (that doesn't make the opposite rule true tho)

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

we need to draw a line between "doesn't get a joke" and, "'can't take a joke?'"

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

i h8 people who try to make jokes

lex pretend, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

A lot of conventional humor is based upon staid, conservative social stereotypes, such as the cartoons about women posted near the top of the thread by Abbott, but it is important to note that such 'establishment' humor rarely, if ever, provokes open laughter. Such jokes are similar to the plastic models of food that are sometimes displayed in the front windows of restaurants to give prospective patrons a more visceral idea of what is on the menu. They provoke recognition, as in "I can see this is a joke, because it is formed like one", but nothing more.

Real laugh-until-you're-crying-and-weak humor is never conservative.

Aimless, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

i love you lex

xp

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 16:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am also pro people who can't take a joke because to me they are standing up for their DIGNITY and that is one of the most valuable things that a human possesses

lex pretend, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

conversely making a joke at someone's expense is an attempt to take away that dignity and is inherently cruel

which is fine when you WANT to be cruel obv but you really can't take offence at someone not wanting to take it

lex pretend, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

"take a joke" and "get a joke" are absolutely different qualities

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

the lex walks into a bar

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 17 August 2012 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think goole was talking about when assholes say, "can't you take a joke?" after they've said something cruel/gross/horrible?

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

"what's this music that's playing?" he asks the bartender

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 17 August 2012 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

"bob dylan," the bartender replies

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 17 August 2012 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

"IS THIS SOME SORT OF JOKE," shouts the lex

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 17 August 2012 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

precisely!

lol xp to hs

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

would lol @ a book of "a lex walks into a bar" joeks

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was thinking about this thread during the whole tosh rape-joke thing

max, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah my friend basically started her troupe because of the tosh "joke"

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

i thought a lot of the response that was kind of stupid. i dunno, all the liberal writers trying to like set up rules about "here's how to make a funny rape joke" and analyzing why tosh's joke was "bad" and this other rape joke is "good"... it was so

max, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

ime ostensibly "progressive" or lefty comedy is maybe even more repulsively conservative than the dad jokes and stereotype-reinforcing unhumour that's the obvious subject of this thread

lex pretend, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

the defenses of tosh were even stupider, obviously

max, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

i had to drop out of the internet temporarily when the tosh joke happened...i can't really talk about it rationally tbh

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

no, progressive comedy was the subject of this thread! or comedy that's created with an anti-racist/anti-sexist intention but somehow seems to reify racist/sexist stereotypes unintentionally. or whatever.

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

"ostensibly 'progressive' or lefty comedy" isn't really what i'm talking about

goole, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

what i really wanted to read was a kind of *historical* account of comedy & its relationship to transgression, like a "genealogy of comedy." a lot of the discussion was weirdly ahistorical, like this sense that stand-up is the purest form of comedy and not form that has its own culture and rules and history (culture and rules and history that lean really heavily on the bill hicks-doug stanhope-sam kinison damaged-man resentful misogynist archetype)

max, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha i mean i guess what i wanted was someone to write the "Standup Comedy Sucks" article but no one did. i shouldve

max, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

u should write a genealogy of comedy nietzsche style

xp

horseshoe, Friday, 17 August 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink


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