Also if it's about "putting in work" then all you need to do is DO THE WORK. There is no better or worse, there is only you did or you didn't.
Different friendships have different baselines, this seems kind of self-evident? There's always that person you can call after 6mos and they sound exactly the same and so do you and that can be great, that can reassure you that someone knows you the way you really are and can be an anchor for your concept of self, where you came from, whatever. But there's going to be some kind of minimum level of involvement for every friendship, and they will return friendship benefits at different levels, too.
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 18:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
i guess that's a way of saying its okay and natural to not want to live in a beer commercial and on a brain science level prob foolish to try since we are much more critical and discerning about relationships as we get older
i've def become much less concerned with having a big circle of friends and more w reconnecting with old friends and nurturing / deepening those long term friendships
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
if you have social opportunities at work you should grin and bear it and take them, usually you'll find a piece of wheat or two among the chaff
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
i tend not to take that advice myself
jon - have you discussed this with your wife? what's her take on it, like, she might have some insight into your(her) friends. It just seems weird to me that you have a "best friend" and you feel friendless.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 19:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
Okay, I new someone was going to rightly call me on my generalization upthread, but it was drawn on my experiences watching my wife and her college friends work really hard to plan their annual gatherings (which they've been doing for 12 years now), its impressive and I know none of my male friends have that kind of stick-to-itness when it comes to social events.
I have talked with my wife about this a lot and we both come from a place where we feel like its really important to have a good friend outside the relationship. One, it gives you an outlet that can be distinct and separate from your family life, which can make for a nice break during the hectic day-in day-out. Two, its nice to have an option when your partner is out with friends so you can also go be with someone without sitting home like a lump. Three, although minor, its nice to just have someone to blow off steam about your partner's minor annoyances.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
Good, I'm glad! I was a bit worried.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah, I didn't mean to gloss over my relationship with my wife at all. I'm just talking about having friends outside of that dynamic. I'm super thankful for her and the time we spend, it just bums me out that I don't have someone outside of that. For example, a few months before my son was born, she had a girl's weekend with friends. Despite many emails and phonecalls trying to set stuff up with people, I ended up spending the whole weekend putzing around by myself. It'd be nice to have someone to spend time with in those moments.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
I can't imagine sitting down with another person to talk about my wife! that'd feel like a weird betrayal to me.
And in general, god it's hard being an adult isn't it?
Is there anyone here who doesn't feel like life is mainly a disappointed and weary sisyphean trudge punctuated occasionally and thankfully by ephemeral scenes of hygge with children, love, music and beer?
― thomasintrouble, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
My special friend's name is Cynthia. We get along so great that sometimes, we hardly talk about my wife at all.
― pplains, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
life isn't like that for dan majerle
― Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
I guess it depends on what you are saying, but I don't think talking about your relationship with another person needs to be that weird or some sort of betrayal. I'm thinking things like, "man, my wife and I got in a pointless argument last night, here's what happened, do you think I was being the ass?".
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
I've had good years and bad years. It's definitely hard being an adult, but having known sustained happiness at one point in my adult life (which, for the first 26 years of my life I never would have imagined possible) I believe I can get there again.
― hot slag (lukas), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
anyway, i don't mean to make light of this thread because i go through my ups and downs for sure. i sympathize with what jon is saying. one of the lowest moments of my life was when my fiance dumped me, and besides the obvious, part of it was that when i left the room and just needed to talk to someone, there wasn't a best friend for me to call. there was no one, only the realization that all my friends were pretty much her friends. and even though they were all kind to me and i thought of them as my friends...anyway, you can guess the rest.
it's really fucking hard to make good friends.
― Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
haha, no, that gif is always appreciated.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 20:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'm having serious problems these days and this thread is v helpful; y'all are lovely, kind, and good people.
― windjammer voyage (blank), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
And in general, god it's hard being an adult isn't it?
yes. yes. yes.
it f*cking is hard work.
currently, i'm surrounded by
every day demands of my wonderful, life enhancing, but still emotionally and physically exhausting offspring.
every day demands of a soul sucking job.
every day demands of your bills.
every day demands of ...
then your wife dies, and you realise all such concerns are mere buttons in comparison in dealing with all the above on your own, and having no-one to share that bottle of wine to wind down with.
summary : adult life sux.
― mark e, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
This is the kind of thing that makes me get so upset with myself for being depressed over seemingly trivial things.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
i don't think it's worthwhile to beat yourself up over the proximate causes of your depression feeling 'trivial'? for one thing that leads to a vicious cycle; for another, well, it's true, life could always be worse, but the life you need to make more livable is the one you're currently experiencing, not any other hypothetical one.
― dethklok piccalo (c sharp major), Tuesday, 15 May 2012 22:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
seriously jon/vai etc. that was never my intention, and i'm genuinely sorry to have added to your troubles.
i have never subscribed to the pissing up a wall contest, and the post was never meant as such.
it was meant as an underline to the point that after years of wanting so called "adult life", the reality is that the f*cking thing sux.
― mark e, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 23:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
c sharp otm - gotta take the good with the bad, in the endless chain of being there's always someone better off and someone worse off
― the late great, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 23:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
No no, you didn't add to my troubles in the least! It was one of those kicks in the ass that remind me that I need a little perspective from time to time.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 03:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
kind of having some issues
i know some things that might help, but can't seem to manage them
not really sanguine about the whole thing
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
i think he just means accomplish, in a basic way? yknow. manage.
I'm sorry yr having a hard time, mp
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
sorry, i was obtusely asking what it was you were having trouble managing
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 04:27 (1 year ago) Permalink
mookie keep posting here, I think that is a step toward managing imho
― quincie, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 20:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
you know something that struck me about jon via chi's story is that i realized that a lot of my friends maybe have the same experience w/ me. like i am making friends with record store dudes all the damn time, probably because i spend all my damn time in record stores and i kinda have that record store dude personality (shocker). and those dudes, they like call me once and if i flake they never call me back. and actually a lot of my friends do this too, as well as a lot of people i connect to. and now i'm 35, and of my tight circle of five bros from HS four of them are on antidepressants and one of them is still totally mentally ill and living an unhealthy lifestyle.
i guess this is a really trite sort of "birds of a feather" story, but you never know if that person on the other end who isn't making that effort with you is doing it because they think you're an anxious depressed loser or because they think they're an anxious depressed loser! and so you might need to make an extra effort to reach out to this person because they might be in the same boat as you, and in fact if you "click" on the level of personality and you're a depressive person then there's probably lots of reasons to think you could relate on that level too.
― the late great, Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
No faster way to make friends than to commiserate about depression ime.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 16 May 2012 21:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
― quincie, Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
― game of crones (La Lechera), Thursday, 17 May 2012 15:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
― obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
paging one (1) Mr Mookie Proof
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 18:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
Mr Proof step to the white courtesy phone
"we're not depressed. We're on strike."
^^^ Dunno if this does anything for anybody else, but it gave me something.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 May 2012 19:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
i think there's validity to that. i mean, i guess it's unfashionable to be into laing (r.d., mot kd) these days, and granted, the way he lead his life was not precisely exemplary, but the idea that if one has trouble adjusting to a cultural/political environment that is super-fucked up then it should come as no surprise i think merits discussion
i mean the people that i most admire have seem to have managed to live outside in a way... like they don't even reference or particularly participate in the cultural touchstones that i guess are a given for most of us. which i think is an exceedingly healthy strategy. like if you can go deep enough inside yourself that you don't just reject those pernicious models in a theoretical way, but in very direct moment-to-moment fashion. i mean, in my experience we live in a world that would define everything for us, and i think it's important to step in and re-define things for ourselves. to live your life fully and properly as it was. because I think that a lot of what manifests as garden-variety mental health woes can be traced back to accepting others' definitions of what life should be for us, instead of engaging with those ideas on our own terms.
― dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
as it was
supposed to read "as it were". can this board get a "preview" function? or at least give the "add a post" section a more pleasing typeface??
― dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
It was years (years!) before it dawned on me that depression is not a competition. Still difficult for me to process (along with allowing myself to be happy which is even more difficult)
― Vini Reilly Invasion (Elvis Telecom), Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
― mookieproof, Thursday, 17 May 2012 20:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
― game of crones (La Lechera), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
hey guys <3 u all for real.
― 69, Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
oh hai mp
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
xxxposts hey how is a Hoos doing lately?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah, both pain and the ability to cope with pain are subjective and context-dependent. It's a valuable thing to recognize and sympathize with the intensity of others' pain, but there's no percentage in beating yourself up because you feel that your pain is somehow out of proportion with the source of your pain. Because we have no real way of knowing how profoundly others are hurting in relation to ourselves or how easily they cope with their own personal burden. All you can do is be empathetic but also deal with your pain as if it's a concern completely separate from what others are going through.
Still learning how to do this myself, btw.
― Bob Bop Perano (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
I find it comforting to remember that emotions are chemical and physical states; it doesn't really matter what put you there, your feelings are real. If you feel like crap, you feel like crap. The important thing, imo, isn't the scale or perceived validity of your problems, it's what you're able to do to change your state of mind. Even that doesn't correlate to any kind of issue-seriosity scale afaict.
― Also unknown as Zora (Surfing At Work), Thursday, 17 May 2012 21:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah, i think there is extreme pressure on people to be happy and successful. whatever that means.
which is kind of a weird thing to build a culture around, but i guess makes sense in a hyper-capitalistic mode of red or black
but i think statistics show that relationships are paramount in life. so for instance nigeria places above "happy" polls over the western industrialized usual suspects
― dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
― dell (del), Thursday, 17 May 2012 22:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
I want to preface this by saying that I am not suicidal, so don't worry. Don't call anyone, don't be concerned. I'm going to work in the morning, I promise. If for no other reason, I have a mother who I know cares about me so much that to take my own life would be to destroy hers. I won't do that.
Having said that:
I believe strongly that I really have ruined what chance at a life I had. I've had so many friends. Amazing friends, sweet people, hilarious people, genuinely good people. And there isn't a single one of them I can talk to tonight. It's not all in my head; I have rejected them, avoided them, and hid from them so many times that even the ones I have reached out to directly won't talk to me anymore.
I am the bad guy in this story. I didn't mean to be, but I am. I have done awful things. I have responded to the lowest lows in my closest friends' lives with silence because I was afraid of awkwardness. I have driven away the people who have loved me. I have fucked up beyond redemption.
Starting over isn't a real thing. Grace, in the absence of religious belief, isn't a real thing. I have to live with what I've done and haven't done.
I'm so fucking sad. I'm so lonely. And I deserve it. I went to school for an idiotic, narcissistic profession, one in which I have no natural skill and one for which I have no remaining passion. I'm so self-involved that I don't know how to cultivate relationships as an adult. I loathe the city in which I live. I have no friends. I have no one left except for my family, and every day my guilt about having chosen a career where it's impossible for me to make a living wage and live within a thousand miles of my aging grandparents eats away at me. I know that every day spent here, away from them, I will regret until I die. They raised me, and took care of me, and spent their whole lives making sure that I had everything I could want, and I can't even be close to them in their old age. I want to go home, but there's no way for me to do so and support myself. I can't even imagine figuring out a way to eek out an okay life for me, much less dream of creating my own family.
I'm so sorry. I can't express how sorry I am. I did everything wrong. I guess I'm just throwing this out to the world: I'm so, so, so sorry. God damn it I am nothing but contrite for my mistakes and I pray to whatever isn't out there to forgive me. I'm sorry.
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Friday, 25 May 2012 03:27 (1 year ago) Permalink
no, you don't start over, you continue. you try not to make the same mistakes that fill you with self-loathing. you end up making some of them again, but maybe fewer, maybe less severely. you focus on doing more things you are proud of, fewer wrong things.
― sarahell, Friday, 25 May 2012 03:32 (1 year ago) Permalink