tumblr rapper kitty pryde

"not often represented in her genre" = ... brings something fresh to the tired guns'n'hos cliches of the rap genre = surefire way to get people's goat on ilm

then people need to step back, because that's an absurd projection. there are a great many voices that aren't often represented in every genre. that's fine, but it does tend to make voices that are less often represented seem somewhat novel, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.

sometimes contenderizer i'll realize that i'm arguing about something i'm not actually so invested in, and i'll decide that considering my lack of investment in the work, the amount of effort i'm putting into defending it isn't worth it. at that point i find something else to do.

shit, i might as well get it from all sides.

i'm interested in this discussion. i'm interested in the way this music relates to the culture at large. i'm interested in how people evaluate it and why. if that's not interest enough to justify my presence in this thread to you, then i don't know what to say.

like, i'm repelled not by a lack of quality, but by cultural difference

but she's not from a different culture! she's from the same culture as me! she has a supreme sticker on her laptop! i have like 20 supreme stickers! (in a drawer)

comparing one work in one medium to a different whole medium is just useless. this song is like a BOOK! that's good! this song is like a TUMBLR! that's bad! if you're operating at the same level of discourse as dj khaled that just stfu and go make moooovieeeees

tbh, i kinda think you'd get more mileage out of this by just saying she's interesting from an anthropological perspective and being done with the hair splitting xxp

also

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zKzS1ayZ3wM/SfIXBSEROGI/AAAAAAAAAi4/SSFGF_CY4SA/s1600/malley+pryde.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f5/HangmenHeaven/Response%20Face/Hansen_blank_background.jpg

tbh i have only really listened to 'ok cupid' but the only 'reference' i can remember from that track is frank ocean

pfft. i was reading kitty pryde comics when i was 10. my love is platonic. xp

Kitty expressed a romantic interest in Colossus early into her time with the X-Men. This did not sit well with Marvel Comics' editor-in-chief at the time, Jim Shooter, who disapproved of the suggestion that a 19-year-old was sleeping with a 14-year-old girl.

there was no suggestion iirc, she just had a crush on him?

afaict contenderizer your reasons for liking this music were

"smart & funny" ... "POV cuz it's relatable, cleverly articulated and not often represented in her genre"

also "the giggly shit and passivity probably read "real" to the people who are into it"

yeah, exactly. i could expand on that, go into the way "justin bieber" starts out aggressively dumb-simple but then develops lyrical and rhythmic complexity, the way it flaunts but also sarcastically subverts its own dorkiness without ever denying it, the way her performances push back and forth between "i'm just goofing" and "i'm really doing this" to engaging effect, the specificity subtlety and authenticity of the POV she articulates. right? these are things we could talk about if we wanted.

well, really only you can talk about them since they're your opinions

but she's not from a different culture! she's from the same culture as me! she has a supreme sticker on her laptop! i have like 20 supreme stickers! (in a drawer)

yeah, but you know what i mean. the cultural island inhabited by teenage girls (and especially by the specific aspects of teenage girlhood to which KP's devoting herself at this point) is not often "shared" with, deeply understood by or terribly well respected by adult men. that's a good thing, probably!

man if everybody on this thread was in group therapy together instead of the internet then this thread would be a very intense phase in the group's growth because there is a lot going on here imo that has to do with self-identification thru music & "ownership" of genre etc & a lot of that shit runs super deep for a lot of people & especially for music dudes

and has less, it goes w/o saying, to do with an artist who literally everybody will have trouble remembering in 2014

i kinda think you'd get more mileage out of this by just saying she's interesting from an anthropological perspective and being done with the hair splitting

yeah, okay, that's probably good advice

plus aero otm

I dunno, I feel I understand where KP is coming from (even if it annoys me when she says "justin beiber really needs to call me though", perhaps because I'm not sure what the "though" is reacting to in what she's already said). I don't get the impression that any of the haters in the thread are objecting to the subject matter or the stance KP takes vis a vis her "culture" or whatevs. And if she chose not to rap in that matter and be more profesh I don't see how this would change the extent to which she is devoting herself to "specific aspects of teenage girlhood" (since as far as i'm aware neither MF Doom nor Paul Barman comprise specific aspects of teenage girlhood).

Most importantly the backing music is 100% designed for 20 something men. And is the "in" which makes this tumblr/fader worthy. I suspect a lot of haters ITT would like this more (or at least hate it less) if it was actually a stoner Daphne & Celeste rather than a stoner Daphne & Celeste as imagined by CloudDEAD.

extraneous use of "though" is part of the teenspeak uptalking 'every sentence sounds like a question or refutation even if it isn't' thing iirc

Her father, a lawyer, has been supportive, but somewhat protective, naturally. “He doesn't listen to my music at all. He likes Pearl Jam and shit,” she says.

LOL

Like, I really don't see what makes this music the province of teenage girlhood as opposed to the music large numbers of teenage girls actually listen to like "Call Me Maybe" and "Boyfriend" and which, not coincidentally, heaps of ILXORS actually love.

Seems to me the much bigger aesthetic judgement factor at work is where you stand or fall on tumblr culture generally.

extraneous use of "though" is part of the teenspeak uptalking 'every sentence sounds like a question or refutation even if it isn't' thing iirc

yeah I meant to say I figured this but it tripped me up each time when listening.

Australians use "but" instead of "though".

What is Lamp's opinion.

all the talk about what "audience" KP's music is "for" is a little labored since a) she hasn't been known outside her immediate social circle yet for what, 5 days? and b) the people that have learned about her in that time are a bunch of fader/complex/blog readers, which i don't know the avg age/gender demographics but i'm guessing it skews a a bit older and more male

i think that considering how much has been written abt the facile nature of tumblr it makes perfect sense as a pt of comparison despite the shifting medium

but w/e, tim is right that my main problem is i find the kind of music shes involved w/ as facile when main attrakionz do it as when she does

at least it took them longer to get to the NYT though

Like, I really don't see what makes this music the province of teenage girlhood as opposed to the music large numbers of teenage girls actually listen to like "Call Me Maybe" and "Boyfriend" and which, not coincidentally, heaps of ILXORS actually love.

the manner of speech: tones, inflections, cadences, giggling, uptalk. that's thing one, the throw down, the challenge to adult sensibilities. it establishes who she is and where she's coming from in broad terms, and the ILX-beloved teenpop you're talking about doesn't usually go there.

i think that considering how much has been written abt the facile nature of tumblr it makes perfect sense as a pt of comparison despite the shifting medium

a lot's been written about the facile nature of pop, but that doesn't make calling something "pop" a particularly resonant criticism.

xps, idk this doesnt strike me as artificial as all that, p sure there's a general swathe of tumblr teengirls that do listen to cloudrap and suchlike that would naturally internalise the aesthetic

has j-shep commented on this, just out of morbid interest

yeah i mean maybe there IS a significant young female fanbase for complex-championed blog rap, i don't really know.

i mean it almost goes without saying that if this girl posted on ILM she'd be regarded by a lot of people itt as having really cool taste.

the manner of speech: tones, inflections, cadences, giggling, uptalk. that's thing one, the throw down, the challenge to adult sensibilities. it establishes who she is and where she's coming from in broad terms, and the ILX-beloved teenpop you're talking about doesn't usually go there.

Has anyone complained about those things ITT though?

I mean yes, "OK Cupid" is very different from "Call Me Maybe" which is basically my point: I don't think you can just run together made-by-teenagers with made-for-teenagers and therefore assume that adults aren't the market here. The reasons people might like or dislike High School Musical and the reasons people might like or dislike a short film made for a school art project are likely to be very different. Typically, the first is made by adults to succeed with a kid audience, whereas the second is made by kids to succeed with an adult audience. And Kitty Pryde feels more like the second than the first for me.

If there is a general swathe of tumblr teengirls that do listen to cloudrap then it's hard not to conclude that they're likely to have much more in common with ILM posters as a general rule rather than less (xpost with some dude...)

calling it all "complex-championed blog rap" is a bit whineyish looking through the wrong side of the telescope tho

like evan r says a lot of things but imo he was right to cast doubt on ilm's portrait of the weeknd as purely a crit conceit, the guy and the things he stands for are genuinely popular

of course you would require in this instance to have a more nuanced idea of "popularity" beyond chart-indie-pitchfork, and a looser definition of fanbase for that matter too probably

idk it's just some general middle class shit, paging lamp i'm going to bed already

yeah sorry if that's a sloppy or misleading choice of words, i genuinely don't really know who is actually listening to or talking about Kitty Pryde right now besides Complex and Fader and people on ilx who are plugged in enough to that world to be annoyed that she's getting attention in it.

i mean it almost goes without saying that if this girl posted on ILM she'd be regarded by a lot of people itt as having really cool taste.

if this girl posted to ilx she'd be laughing at everyone itt pro, con, or otherwise.

if she posted to ILX she'd post her youtube raps and ppl would prob say how good they were

damn i wish kitty pryde was an ilxor

the manner of speech: tones, inflections, cadences, giggling, uptalk. that's thing one, the throw down, the challenge to adult sensibilities

i hate to keep bringing this up over and over again but i deal with teenage girls every freaking day (it's my job) and i've even studied them in graduate school and this shit is not as particularly challenging as you make it sound. sometimes they say smart things and sometimes they don't, sometimes they say cool things and sometimes they don't and it's not too hard to look past the "uptalk" to figure it out - especially since as a san diegan i speak in uptalk too even though i'm old, male and serious (NOW WHAT?!?)

personally i think jessica sanchez is more interesting than kitty pryde

if she was really cutting edge she'd substitute vocal fry for the uptalk

Jshep tweeted about how white male crits crap on female artists but this was in the wake if andy hutchins tweeting the phone number to kp's retail gig, and she said shes not rlly into the song either

I dont question that this ish could end up w a big middlebrow fanbase but so could lots of things given that kind of exposure where everyone feels obliged to have an opinion cf the lana del rey thing

andy hutchins tweeting the phone number to kp's retail gig

the fuck

who are these ghouls

who are these gooles

one and only, bucko

Has anyone complained about those things ITT though?

[tim F asking about my description of her vocal manner] no, but no one has really broken down what it is they dislike her. the criticism has been mostly of the "lol she sucks" variety, intermixed with the suggestion that she's getting attention for the wrong reasons, that others deserve it more, etc. i'm only suggesting that her very typically US-teen-girl-style vocal approach might be part of what causes people to dismiss her.

uh, "...what it is they dislike about her."

ery typically US-teen-girl-style vocal approach

i'm going to regret posting this but i have no idea what you mean here

i hate to keep bringing this up over and over again but i deal with teenage girls every freaking day (it's my job) and i've even studied them in graduate school and this shit is not as particularly challenging as you make it sound. sometimes they say smart things and sometimes they don't, sometimes they say cool things and sometimes they don't and it's not too hard to look past the "uptalk" to figure it out - especially since as a san diegan i speak in uptalk too even though i'm old, male and serious (NOW WHAT?!?)

well, i'm not talking about you, for one thing. i assume every individual has his or her reasons.

if there were a bunch of female rappers working this particular vocal style and exploring these themes, and if there were a high level of acceptance for this approach among older male rap heads, then i would probably be less inclined to wonder how big a role these things played in the rejection of KP.

\O_o/

i'm going to regret posting this but i have no idea what you mean here

went into it in a little more detail a few posts back: "the manner of speech: tones, inflections, cadences, giggling, uptalk." add breathiness, a particular and deliberate sort of flatness, the cartoonishly childlike tone she momentarily affects on the "i'm thirteen, what is lean? what is dream pop" line, etc.

i don't know what makes that typical of us teen girls

also just the straight-up sound of her voice. we can tell a lot about people just by listening to their voices: age and gender are obvious, and perhaps culture and where they call home (of course, we can be wrong about these things too). the sound of KPs voice, her basic tone and manner of speech convey something about her and her place in the world. we know she's not an old dude from latvia, for instance.

for the most part, she doesn't seem to be trying to "sound like a rapper". she's trying, if anything, to sound like an ordinary teenage white girl. that's not a common style in rap.