you know what's crazy tho is there are like....teenage girls who are making good rap music and kitty pryde isn't one them
― The Reverend, Saturday, 12 May 2012 23:59 (twelve years ago) link
maybe i'm not paying close enough attention and 'kitty pryde' just got a number one record release, the front cover of RS, and a favorable P4k review so a ton of male music critics screaming about how mediocre she is on ilx is not creepy at all.
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:01 (twelve years ago) link
'screaming'
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:03 (twelve years ago) link
i wish someone would wipe a magnet on the fucking internet and erase it― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:32 PM (2 days ago)
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:32 PM (2 days ago)
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:03 (twelve years ago) link
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/554272_3944920586681_1390008977_33586369_1383630240_n.jpg
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:04 (twelve years ago) link
if you're getting all hot defending your privilege to throw an internet tantrum bc ppl like something you don't, u should just know in advance that it's nagl
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:07 (twelve years ago) link
think it's ridiculous seeing grown-ass music writers, the likes of whom may have championed, say, rock n roll, girl groups, pop punk, pop, etc, write off music for being too teenage, or imply it's inappropriate to see the relevance in it because you're too old. I mean, if you follow pop as an adult, then you're kind of being a manchild by that logic yourself
the real issue I think is some people find it outside of the boundaries of what they're equipped to write about anymore so it pisses them off
― Chris S, Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:45 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i write about lots of teen artists. good ones, who make good songs. acting like theres some kind of mysterious generational divide that grown folks cant possibly understand is bizarre.
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:08 (twelve years ago) link
― Mordy, Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:07 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
maybe YOURE the one throwing the internet tantrum ...! hmmmmmmmm
think it's okay to criticize music made by teenagers for being teenage, i think it's pretty clear that there's stuff "for kids" that reflects themes adults can relate to (finding nemo) and stuff "for kids" that's just bullshit for small minds (gi joe), similarly i think there's stuff by teenagers that has depth and stuff that doesn't
the idea that teenagers shouldn't be judged by adult standards is just ... teenage
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:08 (twelve years ago) link
i guess i'm kind of doing what chris s was complaining about, but stepping back and recusing myself instead of getting pissed off and hating. i think a lot of teen musical culture gets short shrift from adult critics, whether it be nu-metal, emo, drop-driven dubstep or "tumblr rap".
that's not particularly surprising. we like music when it affirms our values and aesthetics, dislike it when it doesn't. once we realize that our values and aesthetics are themselves open to question, it becomes very hard to say what's good or bad in any final sense. we're left only with "i like it" or "i don't", and that doesn't carry much weight beyond the circle of people who happen to share our point of view.
i can see exactly who might like this music and why. i can also see the vast gulf between that sensibility and my own. since i have no negative feelings toward planet teengirl as a culture, i don't hate this music. there are a few things about it that i appreciate, and a bunch that irritate me. mostly, though, i just see that it isn't for me.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:09 (twelve years ago) link
or "tumblr rap".
this isnt actually a big popular movement like dubstep or emo tho. its critical circle jerk ish. kitty pryde isnt popular (yet)
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:13 (twelve years ago) link
you know what's crazy tho is there are like....teenage girls who are making good rap music and kitty pryde isn't one them― The Reverend, Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:59 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinki write about lots of teen artists. good ones, who make good songs. ― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― The Reverend, Saturday, May 12, 2012 4:59 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i write about lots of teen artists. good ones, who make good songs.
― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:08 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this strikes me as naive. you guys are just saying that there are teenage girls who make music that seems "good" according to your values, perhaps according to "established rap values" or w/e. that's fine, but it doesn't mean that other music can't be just as successful according to other standards.
i can see why intelligent people (especially teens, and perhaps especially teen girls) might view kitty pryde as "good" according to radically different criteria. i don't think that these other points of view are any less valid than that of rap experts - even when it comes to something that's ostensibly "rap music".
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:15 (twelve years ago) link
who am i to say my dog shouldn't eat his own poop? after all, he has radically different criteria than me.
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:16 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:15 PM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is moronic bro. im just arguing that this mystical 'teenness' doesn't make them any more immune from critical analysis than any other style of music.
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:17 (twelve years ago) link
lol i should have just let V have that one
what did churchill say?
"if you're young and rockist you don't have a heart, if you're old and popist you don't have a brain"
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:19 (twelve years ago) link
i'm just kidding, obv there are old popists (who used to post on this board) who i respect
i just think its ironic, i used to argue for radical subjectivity too, then i met the lex
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:20 (twelve years ago) link
oh i know, that's why i put it in quotes. she does seem to be generating page hits and interest, and that's p much the contemporary version of popular. i think it's likely that more kids have watched her videos than adults/critics, and that more kids than adults genuinely like and relate to her music.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:21 (twelve years ago) link
― the late great, Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:16 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol, but if you're inclined to view teen girl culture in terms of dogs eating their own poop, then maybe (just maybe) you're not really equipped to be critiquing this sort of music
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:22 (twelve years ago) link
"teen girl culture"
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:23 (twelve years ago) link
obviously sir you know nothing about the teenage girl, her likes and dislikes and particular listening habits.
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:24 (twelve years ago) link
anyway eating poop was more sort of a reference to reading yr posts
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:25 (twelve years ago) link
really digging this new poop mixtape
― ogmor, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:26 (twelve years ago) link
well yeah. that's where this music is coming from, what it deal with, and what it seems made for: middle class, american, internet-addled teen culture (girl variety).
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:28 (twelve years ago) link
you know i actually know a couple hundred teenage girls and i doubt more than 25% of them would be into this mainly because it's not serious enough
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:28 (twelve years ago) link
Did I read correctly that Kitty is in college?
― dlp9001, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
im just arguing that this mystical 'teenness' doesn't make them any more immune from critical analysis than any other style of music.
― man down (D-40), Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:17 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
o sure. i just think that this music would probably be best analyzed by people who have a specific fondness for, understanding of and interest in teen culture. i.e., teens & especially teenage girls.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:29 (twelve years ago) link
25% is pretty good! i doubt that most of the music i like best would be enjoyed by more than 10% of the bitter old collector nerd cranks out there.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
This music lacks discipline, but anything that agitates adult music fans is automatically a good thing.
― Banaka™ (banaka), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:28 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so far it seems more like its made for music writers bc those are the only people i see reacting to it
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:30 (twelve years ago) link
banaka otm as usual
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
people who have a specific fondness for, understanding of and interest in teen culture. i.e., teens & especially teenage girls.
gonna update my resume w/ this
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
so the other 75% of teen girls, what culture are they in
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, May 12, 2012 7:29 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but u dont understand ... i just posted, on fader, the exact same day, about a teenage girl who raps. and shes not gracing the ny times today. why do u think that is?
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:31 (twelve years ago) link
i mean 25% of the teen girls i know basically just listen to the beatles and stones and dylan, does that prove the beatles and stones and dylan were made for them?
actually they sort of were! and yet that doesn't stop many white critics from liking them?
things that make you go HM
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:32 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s2WZv0MXm4
― Chris S, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:33 (twelve years ago) link
i guess those other 75% have been sucked in by what older people think is important and what teenage girls should listen to, unlike the kitty pryde fans that represent the real teen girl
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:33 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LV4VpYicCE
isnt this TEEN GIRL CULTURE & why isnt it getting full writeups in natl publications??
btw i'm not saying it should, im just curious if anyone thinks theres something SO NOVEL about KP's music that it's earned this kind of attention
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:34 (twelve years ago) link
yeah, articles about her have elided her real age. she talks abt being 16 in "justin bieber", but i get the feeling that she's at least a few years older.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:35 (twelve years ago) link
same culture and different cultures at the same time. no culture is truly unitary, especially not one so vast as "teenage girls in america". and people are different, no surprise.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:36 (twelve years ago) link
so tell me, if its no surprise then why do you keep saying dumb shit about "teen culture"
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:37 (twelve years ago) link
you're like that idiot i knew in high school who would claim all of his errors were actually rhetorical stratagems and socratic method
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
i'd say that the 2nd most obvious reason is that it's familiar music that succeeds according to the established rules of rap as a genre. there's nothing terribly novel about it.
don't want to get into the 1st most obvious reason, as i don't think it would benefit the thread.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:38 (twelve years ago) link
benefit the thread? come on, don't break your streak now.
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
Ok, so she's in college and at least 16. Glad to hear that young kids are making music now. I'll send a letter to Alex Chilton in his grave to let him know.
― dlp9001, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
that we can identify cultural groups doesn't mean they're unitary. and i think that, though neither is homogeneous, it would be hard to find two cultural groups in america with less in common, aesthetically and philosophically, than adult male music critics and teenage girls.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:40 (twelve years ago) link
now who's the 'rap expert'
― man down (D-40), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:41 (twelve years ago) link
hey, look: i've been civil and positive all the way through. if you've got something to say, then say it. i'm not pushing for any kind of clusterfuck here.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:42 (twelve years ago) link
sometimes i wish an ilxor would be like: 'i don't understand how anything works, i don't know why anyone including me really likes anything, the void is infinite and stretches before me i'm afraid" cause that would be preferable to this exchange
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:42 (twelve years ago) link
jeez mordy step away from the computer already
xp
ok, here's what i have to say: you keep making ~BIG PRONOUNCEMENTS~ about subjects like ~TEENAGE GIRL CULTURE~ based on ideation rather than any actual experience and iirc i called you out about this on another thread
i mean sorry if you don't like it but getting called on your bullshit is rarely a pleasant experience
― the late great, Sunday, 13 May 2012 00:43 (twelve years ago) link