U.S. Postal Service: salvageable or doomed?

because...it depends on people forcing trash on strangers

i can't think of any mass commercial enterprise that isn't in some way forcing trash on strangers.

forcing trash on strangers is the cornerstone of our society iirc

I know right

I'm for making more of that trash digital

I have started w/ ilx

if ILX is a mass commercial enterprise, where can I buy stock?

try the post office in 2020.

as long as I can buy Chik-Fi-A and have my portrait painted

"Have you ever bought stock in a message board...from your post office?

YOU WILL"

but I'm for making it more expensive for ups to transport shit too, so

― iatee, Wednesday, May 2, 2012 2:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok fine, but what is going on here is not some kind of market-assisted environmentalism, its private businesses wanting to take over the profitable and potentially profitable parts of the USPS model while leaving the rest to die. There may come a day when virtually every person in the US is capable of doing virtually every piece of their business electronically, but we are probably decades away from that point both in terms of tech and individual internet savvy and access.

not really no

Halliburton Postal Service

can't believe that we are going to hit 200 posts about a shitty indie band that hasn't even released an album since 2003.

private carriers are expensive

― iatee, Wednesday, May 2, 2012 11:42 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if they're forced and enabled to do the work of the USPS, they won't be. they'll find a way to deliver millions of tons of throwaway crap for private business because where there's a dollar to be made, someone will make it. killing the postal service will do nothing but subject a reliable basic services to mr. toad's wild ride courtesy of the "inherently benevolent" free market.

These would make dope mailbags though for real:

http://www.jamesbondlifestyle.com/images/products/ac026.jpg

re: Halliburton Postal Service

like what's gonna go away if the mail is privatized is not reams of shitty bulk mail delivered to your urban apt building or suburban home. it's the network that allows the delivery of private mail at reasonable prices to anyplace in the US.

again, I am against 'the free market' sending people millions of tons of trash too, and I believe we can find ways to fight this

what if it were really expensive to send people trash and also sending shit far away was even more expensive

what do you propose, a bulk mail tax?

also known as the BMT

well you don't even need a 'bulk mail tax', just get rid of bulk mail pricing to begin w/

I mean assuming it's in the hands of the private sector. You can't just make the private sector "get rid of" a pricing scheme

yes he can, he lives in an urban apartment

well in that case sure, a bulk mail tax

that would make bulk mail profitable for the government and would likely reduce bulk mail to some extent, but by incorporating the former (gov't funding) in your solution, you'd virtually guarantee the existence of bulk mail in perpetuity.

hurting is talking about a theoretical world w/o government postage and now you have just brought government postage back into his theoretical world

you guys there are lots of ways to make the transportation of cheap physical crap more expensive

there are not very many good arguments against it if you plan on being around in 2050 or have kids

but won't somebody think of the pensioners who want their coupons?

leaving the junk mail thing out of this, that pre-funding thing in the OP is just staggering to me. that seems like basically transparent "we will destroy you" legislation and should be treated as such and 86ed, thus solving some/all of the problems for USPS.

yeah they might as well have required the postal service to guess the name of a magical imp in order to receive funding

i was being (partly) silly on here, but for real how far is hawaii from where i live? 6000 miles? 45 cents to send a letter there! that's planes and trucks and cars and i think on the one hand that its COOL but i also can't understand how you can keep doing that forever.

maybe its easier than i think. i mean if they are going there anyway to hawaii to deliver junk mail than it doesn't matter if my letter tags along.

Maybe the costs of short-distance mailing are so miniscule that they offset the costs of sending to Hawaii.

And if I'm not mistaken, you can even mail a letter to Guam for 44 cents.

Less for me because I'm still working through my first roll of Forever stamps.

leaving the junk mail thing out of this, that pre-funding thing in the OP is just staggering to me. that seems like basically transparent "we will destroy you" legislation and should be treated as such and 86ed, thus solving some/all of the problems for USPS.

this assumes that there is a political party that would shitcan such nonsense ... oh wait, we don't have that anymore in the age of Change We Can Believe In!

Maybe the costs of short-distance mailing are so miniscule that they offset the costs of sending to Hawaii.

This may be the case. If so, it's not a unique idea to the public sector either. Plenty of private businesses offset higher-cost/lower-margin items or services, or even money-losing items or services, with lower-cost/higher-margin ones. A private bulk mail service could very well make the determination that it makes more economic sense to offer "direct advertising in all 50 states!" and take a little loss on the hawaii/alaska mail to bring in the business.

weight of a letter = 3 grams

weight of an adult male = 80 kg

number of letters that add up to weight of scott seward = about 26,000

26,000 letters * 44 cents = $11,400

that's a lot more expensive than a plane ticket to hawaii

there are not very many good arguments against it if you plan on being around in 2050 or have kids

haha whoops a letter is 30 grams

$1400, actually about the same as a plane ticket to hawaii

i think iatee is arguing from ideology instead of economics

Letters don't need seats, meals, flight attendants, etc.

carry-ons, luggage, gates, blankets, pillows, air-masks, shall I go on?

They do get movies, oddly enough.

letters may occasionally add up to that much, but you don't have 26000 letters going to Hawaii on every flight
OTOH, as I understand it, a lot of mail piggybacks onto flights to Hawaii that are already heading there

Yep, as I suspected:

The speed of mail traveling between Guam and the states varies depending on size and time of year. Light, first-class items generally take less than a week to or from the mainland, but larger first-class or Priority items can take a week or two. Fourth-class mail, such as magazines, are transported by sea after reaching Hawaii. Most residents use post office boxes or private mail boxes, although residential delivery is becoming increasingly available. Incoming mail not from the Americas should be addressed to "Guam" instead of "USA" to avoid being routed the long way through the U.S. mainland and possibly charged a higher rate (especially from Asia).

and

Because Guam is also part of the U.S. Postal System (postal abbreviation: GU, ZIP code range: 96910–96932), mail to Guam from the U.S. mainland is considered domestic and no additional charges are required. Private shipping companies, such as FedEx, UPS, and DHL, however, have no obligation to and do not regard Guam as domestic.

you guys there are lots of ways to make the transportation of cheap physical crap more expensive

there are not very many good arguments against it if you plan on being around in 2050 or have kids

yeah, sure, i agree with you on an ideological, goal-oriented level. everyone here probably does. but the solution is not destroying the USPS, privatizing all mail delivery, making rural people pay a "fair rate", and taxing bulk mail. pragmatically speaking, that might reduce bulk mail volume somewhat, but would merely set up a system guaranteeing its perpetuation. and it could be accomplished without destroying the USPS.

sure

wait only 'sure'ing the last part, 'would set up a system guaranteeing its perpetuation' is nonsense

if the government got tax revenue from every pizza coupon and crate & barrel catalog sent, you can bet they'd do whatever they could to keep the paper flowing

that might be hyperbole. hmmm... let's just say that it would reduce their incentive to stop junk mail.