Mad Men on AMC • Fifth Season Thread

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So I guess Megan is gonna quit her job at some point

silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

Megan's dad is a great character

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

What about Pete! I had just commented on how missing he was in this episode when he shows up and has that brilliant exchange with Emile.

yeah, loved this. good rebuttal to my earlier kvetching about how pete seems at though he would suck at his job. demonstrated that he's a gifted flatterer.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

roger being so fun with sally and then destroying her innocence was v heartbreaking

― call all destroyer, Monday, April 30, 2012 7:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

One of the best episode ending lines.

― mh, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:29 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, the both of you

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

i think your judgment is clouded by your general loathing of him

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

undoubtedly true

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

this was a great episode, but peggy is making less and less sense to me as a character this season

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, April 30, 2012 6:55 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think she makes sense as a character. she's smart & ambitious, has a strong sense of her value as a thinker and doer, but is still rather insecure about her looks and place in the world. though she refuses to be bound by expectations, she can't help but see herself as "no prize" in relation to the likes of joan and megan.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

her response to Megan at the office celebration of the Heinz success was odd, and i questioned her sincerity.

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

That was just a weird exchange from both ends.

Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

I can see her wanting to feel that way, and if she truly does, then she's way more saintly than anyone else on the show.

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think she was sincere. I think the easy/lazy idea is that she's jealous of Megan, that Megan's lucky because she's getting by due to Don, that she'll get ahead before her etc etc. But I think the writers give Peggy more credit than that. She's too smart. She sees how hard Megan works and how Megan seeks her advice and approval, and she acknowledges that the work is good, or at least good enough. So I think she's sincere in being happy for her. If there is any threat of being replaced, by Megan or by Ginsburg, I don't think she senses it. She's too caught up in her own work and Abe.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

it was an odd scene. i didn't doubt peggy's sincerity, but there was something awkward about her declaration of selfless solidarity, and i didn't get why megan seemed so troubled by her moment of triumph.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

or maybe, esp. with the recent Abe interactions, she's feeling that she needs to have a life outside of the office and that world? The ending line, "this is as good at this job gets" was totally credible.

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think Megan seemed troubled because having a great idea about how to sell beans was ultimately not really that satisfying and it left her questioning whether she actually wants a career in advertising

xp

silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

The ending line, "this is as good at this job gets" was totally credible.

yeah, that was peggy's best moment in this episode

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean, the exchange between Megan and her father fills in a lot of gaps about Megan's personality, she was obviously raised to be ambitious. And if this is "as good as it gets", then maybe she wants something more.

xp to myself

silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think Megan seemed troubled because having a great idea about how to sell beans was ultimately not really that satisfying and it left her questioning whether she actually wants a career in advertising

good point! sets up her father scolding her for giving up her own dreams to fit in with don's life. annoyed at myself for not catching that.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

now that she is being written as more than just Don's manic pixie dream girl, I'm liking Megan a lot more.

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

maybe megan decides to quit advertising and become an actress, and then she's cast as the wife of the lead character in a television drama about the world of advertising.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

the beans pitch again raised a question that's come up several times itt: are SCDP really all that great at what they do? cuz while i could definitely see that ad appearing on TV, it didn't exactly blow me away with its brilliance.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

the client liked it, that's pretty much what mattered.

sarahell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

I suspend my disbelief for that kind of stuff because you're never gonna have a tv show come up with all these brilliant advertising ideas. Basically if they say it's brilliant on the show I just assume it is for the purposes of the story.

silverfish, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

the beans pitch again raised a question that's come up several times itt: are SCDP really all that great at what they do? cuz while i could definitely see that ad appearing on TV, it didn't exactly blow me away with its brilliance.

― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, May 1, 2012 12:11 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

but this is ALWAYS the problem when fiction tries to represent the creative process: the supposed "great novel" or "great symphony" the leader character is preparing is rarely any good. you have to suspend disbelief.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, i know. mad men doesn't make a great case for SCDP as a brilliant, pioneering ad powerhouse, imo. not a criticism of the show.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think it's been made clear many times that they are not on the cutting edge. They are competent and occasionally have a flash of genius/inspiration, and people like Ginsburg think they have potential (or he was just flattering them), but they're not DDB.

That's why all the talk above about whether Peggy is good seems weird to me. She's good enough for that job. Don is good enough for the job. They're both competent and occasionally really good. But if they were really great they'd be more successful. And I don't think the show has been about the quality of the work since like Season 1.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

the easy way to do it would be to just straight rip off the most brilliant advertising ideas of yesteryear. perhaps its to their credit that they don't do this, but otoh, a little education in the history of the creative side of the business might be a nice fringe benefit.

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think it's been made clear many times that they are not on the cutting edge. They are competent and occasionally have a flash of genius/inspiration, and people like Ginsburg think they have potential (or he was just flattering them), but they're not DDB.

i dunno. even recently it's been made clear that don's name carries weight in the ad world and that he has a mystique. although ginsburg was no doubt sucking up, he also seemed to be drawn to SCDP on the basis on don's name -- and he seemed carry a kind of awe for don, which--since ginsburg was coming from outside the ad world--means that don draper has to be a well-known guy by advertising standards.

in general i wish the show would shift the balance a bit from the soap-opera bits to the actual business of running an ad agency. i always liked that stuff and it's one of the things that made the show unique. too many TV shows that take place in a certain occupational milieu basically abandon their attention to that milieu after a shot while.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Even if Don has been a genius in the past, it's clearly a plot point of this season that he's coasting.

I agree, I mean, I don't want THE PITCH, but it's been a season or two since any major drama revolved around advertising.

dan selzer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Even if Don has been a genius in the past, it's clearly a plot point of this season that he's coasting.

adding weight to a point that's been made previously, he's drifting into roger's role, recognizer more than generator of brilliance

Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 05:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

the easy way to do it would be to just straight rip off the most brilliant advertising ideas of yesteryear

"it's toasted"

(yes, i know)

thomp, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, i was kinda under the impression she wasn't so happy in her relationship. then she got all excited for his proposal? message: all girls want to be married at heart, even peggy?

― Mordy, Monday, April 30, 2012 8:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know this is way upthread, but if theres one thing i cant stand its that this complex, interesting, multi-dimensional character is being expected to stand in for all women, & its what really grates abt the political arguments against this

man down (D-40), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

anyway yeah loved this ep

man down (D-40), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

and my first surreal conversion moment was definitely when january jones goes out in the back yard & shoots at the pigeons in s1

man down (D-40), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

don's name carries weight in the ad world and that he has a mystique

Hard to say how much of this is to do with his talent, and how much with his gargantuan charisma.

I wonder if Roger was obliged to, er, return Marie's favour?

I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 10:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

i know this is way upthread, but if theres one thing i cant stand its that this complex, interesting, multi-dimensional character is being expected to stand in for all women, & its what really grates abt the political arguments against this

srsly the way some of you come running to bat for this show the moment someone says something even half-critical about it makes community fanboys look reasonable

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 12:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think you guys are giving advertising too much credit.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like there is a Sgt. Pepper of advertising or something.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I thought there was a direct parallel between Joan congratulating Peggy and saying that it was great she was moving in, without being engaged, and Peggy congratulating Megan. They both seemed really honest, but maybe both congratulators just wanted to really mean it?

mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Like there is a Sgt. Pepper of advertising or something.

It's the Purina Chuck Wagon tv commercial. The idea of the dog following the miniature covered wagon through the kitchen had its roots in Stockhausen's "Gesang der Jünglinge."

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 14:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah Peggy was really enthused, Megan just didn't care that much, or found the victory kinda hollow, because she's probably better than SCDP or for that matter advertising.

Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

well, and the fact that she could be delivering gold every meeting and people would dismiss it as "eh, boss's wife"

mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, felt more like Megan is just stepping on egg shells (or whatever the appropriate folksy saying is) and that she is painfully self-aware of how others in the office see her and may be jealous. Hence also trying to pass off the idea to Don. But yeah Matt probably OTM and this is maybe a bit of her father coming through.

Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp but no one was doing that in the episode--she was actually being given proper and sincere credit and just wasn't feelin it

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Megan's dad is a great character

for some reason he was REALLY reminding me of Max Von Sydow in Hannah and Her Sisters

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

but no one was doing that in the episode

this struck me as very odd tbh. suddenly the place is a meritocracy?

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean, other than the actual client thinking it was Don and Don also doing the "you should shake her hand" thing

mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

I loved Megan's dad's Sartre specs.

I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

I liked his subtly breaking Don's balls -- "Bobby is helping me refill my fountain pen"

Draper family 2, white carpet 0

mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

Megan just didn't care that much, or found the victory kinda hollow, because she's probably better than SCDP or for that matter advertising.

I wouldn't necessarily say "better" but I think she's realizing advertising is not fulfilling for her in any way. She probably thought that since she'd been striking out in terms of getting acting work that she could get satisfaction from another ostensibly creative field but it hasn't worked out that way.

Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:34 (1 year ago) Permalink


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