GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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i think she has a distinctive voice, but i hope she isn't the voice of my generation. "Gen Y is almost the opposite, an over-amplified sense of self-worth encouraged by over-attentive parents with money." this is the picture of Gen Y that has been pushed by a media largely controlled by the Baby Boomers. i think there are a lot of fine traits re Gen Y that just haven't yet gotten broad amplification yet. the 'self-absorbed, vacuous, privileged, coddled' critique is just cultural filicide.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Dude, my wife has a proper job, in an office and shit, and she's told me stories of parents of new, young hires calling in with questions and concerns. I don't think any generation can be, er, generalized, but some of these traits are real, and can certainly be identified in society at large. It's a generation that began with graduation celebrations at kindergarten, came of age at the peak of the US economy, and are now idle and/or aimless due to a confluence of factors, economic, social or otherwise. They have a lot going for them, too, though.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 00:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

There are also a lot more of them. By the time I graduated college, there were literally twice as many kids in high school as there were when I was in high school.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

When a generation is young, they are pilloried for their unique quirks. Older generations find their aesthetics grotesque, their politics lamentable, they are young and immature. Later, when that generation controls everything, they valorize their own identity - they position their shared historical milestones at the center of culture and life. You wanna see what's awesome about Gen Y'ers? Wait until 2035 when the echo boomers are everything + everywhere.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

Also, wtf kind of parents would call their kid's bosses? That's so much weirder than being the kid whose parents don't understand boundaries.

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

meanwhile, gawker's contribution:

Choad of Choad Hall (kingfish), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's a different kind of aimless 20-somethings, though, isn't it? Isn't one of the traits of Gen Y that they've been coddled their entire life (everyone's a winner, everyone gets praised, etc.). and are thus not really prepared for the real world? Gen X was more a neurotic, angsty"I came from a broken home, soul destroying suburb, I just want to be me" sort of vibe. Gen Y is almost the opposite, an over-amplified sense of self-worth encouraged by over-attentive parents with money. Not angsty, just aimless.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, April 30, 2012 7:38 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whether you realize it or not, most of this is just regurgitated op ep narrative

iatee, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

hey, here's some other horrible things you might not have known about Gen Y:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/07/15/what-gen-y-doesnt-know-about-itself/

just in case you were confused about who the greatest generation on earth is:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/07/07/gen-x-are-the-revolutionaries-and-the-nyt-coverage-of-shared-care-parenting-stinks/

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

Few things I care about less than defining characteristics of generations, but the whole scene with Elijah was hilarious.

boxall, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 01:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

"It was nice to see you, your dad is gay"

Number None, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, boy, this really isnt for me. the scene at the end of this ep where dunham is updating her twitter and types something, thinks about it, deletes it, does that again, and then the tweet that she sends is some self-affirming shit said by britishchick earlier in the episode while 'dancing on my own' starts playing and then she starts dancing on her own, is when i was like 'alright i've had enough of this'

am highly skeptical of the idea upthread that the show is ambivalent about its chars, feel like it unabashedly loves them and views them through the self-romanticizing prism that often makes young artists insufferable. there's plenty of self-awareness there, but also a natural lack of distance (this could be part of the appeal for some viewers)

im also not convinced that dunham can give the characters distinct voices, or at least she hasn't yet - shoshanna's still a thin caricature and marnie's scenes in this ep felt to me like they were written for hannah's character

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

thought the Dancing On My Own dance was really good esp when Marnie came in

GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

All generations are risible in their own way. But they're certainly risible for different, unique reasons.

That's translated directly from the Tolstoy, btw.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

I guess she could have moped around but wouldn't that have been the truly self-involved "woe is me this is HUGE" reaction? I dig that she it was all I've got HPV/my ex is gay/the guy I'm sleeping with is a liar...oh fuck it.

GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

i was not a fan of that scene xxxp. a little too hughesian maybe

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Tolstoy was some rich kid tho what did he know? bet he only got published coz of his dad.

GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

marnie's scenes in this ep felt to me like they were written for hannah's character

don't see this at all

Number None, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

well I guess tolstoy would be writing crappy op eps in 2k12 xp

iatee, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

xp to josh - maybe the whole armchair child psychologist 'generational' context is a superficial way of discussing large groups of ppl

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

For sure. I do find it interesting what so many more or less gen xers think of this show. It's making a lot of relatively young people feel pretty old, which I guess is funny.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

and then the tweet that she sends is some self-affirming shit said by britishchick earlier in the episode

Yeah I think maybe you misread that, "all adventurous women do" is what Jemma said about contracting HPV, pretty sure Hannah thought of it as an ironic out-of-context quoting of a ridiculous thing to say, not self-affirming.

boxall, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i took it as a 'oh fucking hell gotta laugh to keep from crying now i'll dance for catharsis' kinda thing

GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

I think he read it correctly - it's supposed to be triumphant, overcoming her terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Still only three eps here folks. Characters be building

"in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Nah. Also she had a legit horrible day, even if she is privileged, so I don't know why you phrase it like that (xp).

boxall, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 02:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Dunham is really, really good. I love the way she's played pretty much all of her scenes in the last two episodes - charismatic but quiet.
thought the scene with Marnie and the artist? was really well done, the tension on the platform was right on

wouldn't be upset if they cut out Britchick and the SITC fan

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 03:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

SATC

Mordy, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 03:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sexin' the City

mh, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 03:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

GoT SPOILER ALERT (Gukbe), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 03:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

Needs more Papyrus font.

Aimless, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

"giant hot dogs"

"in this super-sexy postracial age" (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 04:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

Isn't Generation Y about two generations ago?

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 06:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, gen x was several years older than me during the grunge era, and i'm 'old' now

Bad Company's Drummer's Daughter (stevie), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

am highly skeptical of the idea upthread that the show is ambivalent about its chars, feel like it unabashedly loves them and views them through the self-romanticizing prism that often makes young artists insufferable. there's plenty of self-awareness there, but also a natural lack of distance (this could be part of the appeal for some viewers)

how do you parse hannah showing up in her parents' hotel room and informing them she is the voice of her generation? ... which tbh when the show has been that self-aware about what's / what isn't going on anyone who then says 'ah but is this really what gen y life is about' has been played and can just stfu, gtfo

im also not convinced that dunham can give the characters distinct voices, or at least she hasn't yet - shoshanna's still a thin caricature and marnie's scenes in this ep felt to me like they were written for hannah's character

this on the other hand i kind of get with: i feel like the other three are more like facets of or ideas for characters, and i don't think it's really deliberate. -- also something that would work in a novel better than in an episodic tv show with four leads. -- when shoshanna has a main plot what on earth is that going to look like, i wonder

thomp, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

the gawker posts on this are the worst thing in the world

thomp, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 07:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

"maybe they weren't awful. maybe your taste is awful." hahaha!

scott seward, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

will always have total mancrush luv for legros. i'm only human!

scott seward, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

xposting I don't know how far past Gen X or Gen Y we are, exactly - it's not an exact science - but certainly we've hit the point where Gen Y should be starting to churn out their share of movies, books, etc.; Dunham might even be on the young end of that scale. The so-called millennials are all still in school, so we've got a few years before they offer their own solipsistic take on the world.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

they will only be able to make movies if their parents are watching them though.

scott seward, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

That'd be hilarious. "Lena, don't forget to shoot coverage! And wipe that powdered sugar off your cheek!"

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

three episodes isnt quite enough for me to make the judgment that the characters dont have distinct voices but yeah so far shoshanna and gemma dont have much depth at all. marine is a little better but not by much -- but it seemed really clear to me that her scenes in episode 3 were hers, the whole, "uptight girl gets sexual mind blown by Andy Samberg sidekick" thing

max, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

don't forget your water bottle! you need to hydrate. most hydrated generation alive.

x-post

scott seward, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

i thought the art gallery bathroom masturbation scene was weird, not specifically masturbating in the bathroom but that marnie would be so turned on by that guy telling her about his scary sex, the kind of thing that if itd happened in a show written/directed by men i wouldve written off as fantasy

max, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

then again sexuality is a mysterious & complex phenomenon

max, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

i believe artist dude is a man but i don't believe that he knows things.

scott seward, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

anyway i still like this show a lot, it makes me laugh enough not to care too much about dancing to robyn at the end

max, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

There’s also a scene in one of the episodes where a guy says to one of the characters, “The first time I fuck you I might scare you a little, because I’m a man, and I know how to do things,” and it’s supposed to be a huge turn-on.

Somebody actually said that line to me, only afterward he was like, “That’s the thing my friend who works at Vice magazine taught me.” And I was like, the best way to negate the hot thing you just said is to end it with, that’s the thing my friend at Vice magazine told me.

Was it working before he said that?

No, it never really worked. I don’t think he was really willing to put his money where his mouth was. I’ve been watching that show “Bent,” and I just love the main guy in it. He’s a guy who comes over and is like, “When you’re ready for me, it’s gonna be crazy.” I’ve never had a situation in real life where that’s been effective, but in my movie life, it’s very effective. Real life – it’s grotesque. But if somebody says like, I’m paraphrasing, like, “We’re gonna screw and you’re gonna like it,” that is so much more attractive in theory than in practice.

thomp, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

i googled 'onion av club lena dunham interview' trying to find that (which is actually from the salon interview, oops) and even with 'lena dunham interview' in the search terms the episode guides show up above it on google. the mtynahseriouis tv wastching habits of genernation y

apparently there is also a neogaf thread about this show which before i click on i am going to pre-emptively take back the thing i said about the gawker posts on it being the worst thing in the world

thomp, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

dunham is really good at deflating those weird pretentions, especially w/r/t sex, so its weird to me that she played the marnie scene so straight

max, Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, gen x was several years older than me during the grunge era, and i'm 'old' now

more than several, Generation X lasted from the 50s to the 90s as a current term for "oh our feckless young generation, wherever are they headed"

┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 13:58 (1 year ago) Permalink


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