GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

the neverending shitstream it's been getting in critical circles is baffling to me.

i think the clue is in the title.

OTM -- even more true of the criterion fandork response to them releasing 'tiny furniture.'

wait "Baggage" is a REAL SHOW?

omg it is! the comedy writes itself, etc

great ep; this is progressing well and is starting to investigate things that kind of matter? I'm getting invested in the characters.

Forgive me if that's a little too close to 'voice of a generation' in earnest, but w/e, I think she's a genius.

― sleepingbag, Monday, April 30, 2012 6:35 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

After 3 eps of Girls happy to call Lena Dunham the voice of my generation. Better her than say Mark Zuckerberg.

"my best dyke friend works for a dick doctor"

holy wtf

also sorry for the play-by-play thingy a day late, but
I thought the under-25s all got the vaccine or something. Do I have Jenny McCarthy to blame for this plot device?

Hannah'd have been out of high school by the time Gardasil rolled out and started getting required by many public school districts. Quite easy to believe that she'd not have gotten it if she hasn't gotten a physical in a while.

I didn't know that it was required by public schools! I just know a lot of women who got it. I mean, uh, the vaccine. HPV too, I guess.

OK I got to the scene where it's revealed "oh yeah Jessa (sp?) has like two strains"

Lena Dunham ranks very highly among the people in my generation I am most impressed with right now.

Clearly we have determined your generation has pervasive issues, then.

I kid, I kid. (I don't kid.) No, really. I kid.

Has there been a more or less definitive portrait of Gen Y yet? I've heard all the horror stories (parents calling bosses at work, over-praised/coddled/priviliged kids unable to cut it in a competitive world, etc.), so maybe it's just a matter of filmmakers (like Dunham?) getting old enough to make movies about their formative experiences, displaced the Gen X default that us fogies impose. Even the so-called mumblecore folks are really mid-30s Gen X age, no?

Also, is "Kicking and Screaming" the ur-mumblecore movie? A kind of post-college purgatory comedy?

Gen Y can't get jobs where they get to make definitive portraits of themselves yet dude.

there are a lot of Gen X movies of aimless 20-somethings but they're not quite mumblecore imo

It's a different kind of aimless 20-somethings, though, isn't it? Isn't one of the traits of Gen Y that they've been coddled their entire life (everyone's a winner, everyone gets praised, etc.). and are thus not really prepared for the real world? Gen X was more a neurotic, angsty"I came from a broken home, soul destroying suburb, I just want to be me" sort of vibe. Gen Y is almost the opposite, an over-amplified sense of self-worth encouraged by over-attentive parents with money. Not angsty, just aimless.

Nobody I know except me is remotely like this btw ^^^^ mostly I just know anxious people

I guess the main reason I tooootally don't get the whole "voice of my generation" thing is that her generation isn't my generation. Which I guess marks the point where I are officially getting old.

i think she has a distinctive voice, but i hope she isn't the voice of my generation. "Gen Y is almost the opposite, an over-amplified sense of self-worth encouraged by over-attentive parents with money." this is the picture of Gen Y that has been pushed by a media largely controlled by the Baby Boomers. i think there are a lot of fine traits re Gen Y that just haven't yet gotten broad amplification yet. the 'self-absorbed, vacuous, privileged, coddled' critique is just cultural filicide.

Dude, my wife has a proper job, in an office and shit, and she's told me stories of parents of new, young hires calling in with questions and concerns. I don't think any generation can be, er, generalized, but some of these traits are real, and can certainly be identified in society at large. It's a generation that began with graduation celebrations at kindergarten, came of age at the peak of the US economy, and are now idle and/or aimless due to a confluence of factors, economic, social or otherwise. They have a lot going for them, too, though.

There are also a lot more of them. By the time I graduated college, there were literally twice as many kids in high school as there were when I was in high school.

When a generation is young, they are pilloried for their unique quirks. Older generations find their aesthetics grotesque, their politics lamentable, they are young and immature. Later, when that generation controls everything, they valorize their own identity - they position their shared historical milestones at the center of culture and life. You wanna see what's awesome about Gen Y'ers? Wait until 2035 when the echo boomers are everything + everywhere.

Also, wtf kind of parents would call their kid's bosses? That's so much weirder than being the kid whose parents don't understand boundaries.

meanwhile, gawker's contribution:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17l7i2o6hs1krjpg/original.jpg

It's a different kind of aimless 20-somethings, though, isn't it? Isn't one of the traits of Gen Y that they've been coddled their entire life (everyone's a winner, everyone gets praised, etc.). and are thus not really prepared for the real world? Gen X was more a neurotic, angsty"I came from a broken home, soul destroying suburb, I just want to be me" sort of vibe. Gen Y is almost the opposite, an over-amplified sense of self-worth encouraged by over-attentive parents with money. Not angsty, just aimless.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, April 30, 2012 7:38 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whether you realize it or not, most of this is just regurgitated op ep narrative

hey, here's some other horrible things you might not have known about Gen Y:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/07/15/what-gen-y-doesnt-know-about-itself/

just in case you were confused about who the greatest generation on earth is:
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2008/07/07/gen-x-are-the-revolutionaries-and-the-nyt-coverage-of-shared-care-parenting-stinks/

Few things I care about less than defining characteristics of generations, but the whole scene with Elijah was hilarious.

"It was nice to see you, your dad is gay"

yeah, boy, this really isnt for me. the scene at the end of this ep where dunham is updating her twitter and types something, thinks about it, deletes it, does that again, and then the tweet that she sends is some self-affirming shit said by britishchick earlier in the episode while 'dancing on my own' starts playing and then she starts dancing on her own, is when i was like 'alright i've had enough of this'

am highly skeptical of the idea upthread that the show is ambivalent about its chars, feel like it unabashedly loves them and views them through the self-romanticizing prism that often makes young artists insufferable. there's plenty of self-awareness there, but also a natural lack of distance (this could be part of the appeal for some viewers)

im also not convinced that dunham can give the characters distinct voices, or at least she hasn't yet - shoshanna's still a thin caricature and marnie's scenes in this ep felt to me like they were written for hannah's character

thought the Dancing On My Own dance was really good esp when Marnie came in

All generations are risible in their own way. But they're certainly risible for different, unique reasons.

That's translated directly from the Tolstoy, btw.

I guess she could have moped around but wouldn't that have been the truly self-involved "woe is me this is HUGE" reaction? I dig that she it was all I've got HPV/my ex is gay/the guy I'm sleeping with is a liar...oh fuck it.

i was not a fan of that scene xxxp. a little too hughesian maybe

Tolstoy was some rich kid tho what did he know? bet he only got published coz of his dad.

marnie's scenes in this ep felt to me like they were written for hannah's character

don't see this at all

well I guess tolstoy would be writing crappy op eps in 2k12 xp

xp to josh - maybe the whole armchair child psychologist 'generational' context is a superficial way of discussing large groups of ppl

For sure. I do find it interesting what so many more or less gen xers think of this show. It's making a lot of relatively young people feel pretty old, which I guess is funny.

and then the tweet that she sends is some self-affirming shit said by britishchick earlier in the episode

Yeah I think maybe you misread that, "all adventurous women do" is what Jemma said about contracting HPV, pretty sure Hannah thought of it as an ironic out-of-context quoting of a ridiculous thing to say, not self-affirming.

yeah i took it as a 'oh fucking hell gotta laugh to keep from crying now i'll dance for catharsis' kinda thing

I think he read it correctly - it's supposed to be triumphant, overcoming her terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day

Still only three eps here folks. Characters be building

Nah. Also she had a legit horrible day, even if she is privileged, so I don't know why you phrase it like that (xp).

Dunham is really, really good. I love the way she's played pretty much all of her scenes in the last two episodes - charismatic but quiet.
thought the scene with Marnie and the artist? was really well done, the tension on the platform was right on

wouldn't be upset if they cut out Britchick and the SITC fan

SATC

Sexin' the City

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2010/12/Snax-and-the-City4.jpg

Needs more Papyrus font.

"giant hot dogs"

Isn't Generation Y about two generations ago?

yeah, gen x was several years older than me during the grunge era, and i'm 'old' now

am highly skeptical of the idea upthread that the show is ambivalent about its chars, feel like it unabashedly loves them and views them through the self-romanticizing prism that often makes young artists insufferable. there's plenty of self-awareness there, but also a natural lack of distance (this could be part of the appeal for some viewers)

how do you parse hannah showing up in her parents' hotel room and informing them she is the voice of her generation? ... which tbh when the show has been that self-aware about what's / what isn't going on anyone who then says 'ah but is this really what gen y life is about' has been played and can just stfu, gtfo

im also not convinced that dunham can give the characters distinct voices, or at least she hasn't yet - shoshanna's still a thin caricature and marnie's scenes in this ep felt to me like they were written for hannah's character

this on the other hand i kind of get with: i feel like the other three are more like facets of or ideas for characters, and i don't think it's really deliberate. -- also something that would work in a novel better than in an episodic tv show with four leads. -- when shoshanna has a main plot what on earth is that going to look like, i wonder