Kenny Dalglish Won't Be Delivering the Module: English Premiership 2011-12

kenny dalglish prefers to elide results totally and concentrate on the sterling work of liverpool's commercial negotiators

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

He is almost a professor type character when people want soundbites and players want short team-talks.

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Hodgson at Liverpool was a mess. As much as I like being a contrarian when it comes to that club and its supporters, you can't help but admit it. I remember watching that team play a weak Villa and get absolutely played off the park. They seemed so lost. But it wasn't just Hodgson's fault. The near-bankruptcy board problems have seemingly been forgotten and which is something he won't have at England. He also won't have to pick apart a failed squad of Rafael Benetiz (although adding Konchesky to them wasn't exactly a wise decision.) Oh and his reign started with the court trial of his captain beating someone up in a nightclub.

Liverpool seemed like such a mess on all fronts that I give him the benefit of the doubt. He has had a decent career elsewhere. He rebuilt Inter and made it to a European final with them, iirc. He did the same with Fulham. His WBA side plays with poise and depending on the form of their more exciting players, can be a joy to watch.

He also has previous managing countries and is coming into the spot when the Sun and their savagesreaders view whoever takes the job with about as much sympathy as their ever going to get. Expectations aren't high. Everyone knows England are a mess and that the boat needs to be steadied first and foremost. I don't expect Woy to do any of this 'pick Paul Scholes' 'Arry wackiness. I expect realisation that we are Grant Holt country until someone works out ways otherwise.

Everyone has picked up on his intelligence and respectable oldmanness. 'Arry was never the guy to sort out English football. The media wanted him because the inevitable fall would be a delicious story. No-one in the immediate future is going to win anything with England, failure is the only option. But Woy seems like he could use his wise elder statesman bit to get somethings to change. He might actually look into youth player development, for example, or try to get the Premiership people to stop trying to take a massive dump in the mouths of the Lower Leagues.

― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

there is this element to the story that I keep coming back to, namely ...

the fact that it has surprised everyone / upset their narrative / no one saw it coming
it all gets rationalized in retrospect - 'the FA want someone who lives near St George's Park' - but I have never read that as criterion before (though I have heard HR on south coast as a problem)

there is this weird way that 'football people' turn out to have been very ignorant about what was going on
while talking constantly like they knew what was going on (cf Shearer, Hansen, asked about Redknapp any time in last year or so?)

but they don't then reassess and admit flaws in their (systems) thinking and think about better ways of gathering and assessing information, or not talking BS in future.

and future problem = the fact that this was unexpected may create 'media narrative' vs Hodgson, 'should have been Redknapp' etc - bad for England, probably

(seems like I am suddenly an England fan again if RH gets the post)

― the pinefox, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

i agree, i think wrongfooting the media narrative is a bad way to start. Their backing would have been a positive for redknapp.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

i suppose i still won't watch england and generally would rather they continued to fail, but insofar as possible i hope hodgson is saved from the worst excesses of the vermin at the sun

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

i want to see him parading the world cup around anfield tbqfh

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

he could win the world cup with say, belgium in 2014

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah, even better obv, or us.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

D-mac, to be honest McClaren had media backing to start with!

― the pinefox, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

(why 'TBH' I don't know. just a fact I think)

― the pinefox, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

well it won't save you, but it's haf a start to a fair go at justified failure.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

the sun piece is predictably graceless and spiteful

A manager, though, who is not quite so comfortable with strong-minded, independent top-flight internationals

OUR BRAVE BOYS

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

'strong-minded, independent'

EBJT, Lampard, Cole.
Hart, R Ferdinand, Rooney

― the pinefox, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

wait, what did Hart do?

― Number None, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

I am sick of the capacity of these tosser players to dictate and undermine things - they probably don't have any interest in what the manager says, if it's not Fergie or Mourinho

agree, Hart hasn't done anything specially bad yet but does seem very arrogant and 'untouchable' and is at richest club in world

― the pinefox, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

whoever gets the job shd start by dropping anybody strong-minded and independent, maybe pick a team that can take instruction.

― like Joe Pasquale and Gandhi (Noodle Vague), Monday, 30 April 2012 05:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Carlos Tevez says he wants to stay at Manchester City. More news to follow...

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 07:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

if anyone can be found to buy him he should be let out ta fuck, dropped at the gates and his bag thrown after him. sickening arse.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 07:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Once the season's over they should permanently drop him but not sell him, instead keeping him inside a giant hamster wheel for fitness, to be let out in case they ever have another wobble.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 07:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Hodgson should have been given the England job after Hoddle left. At that point, his stock was unarguably highish, and his tactical acumen was still undoubted. Would have been a ton better than Keegan.

Amused by columnists this morning all furiously saying the players had all publicly said they wanted Arry. Well, when asked to say how much they wanted Arry:
Hack: "How would you feel about Arry being England manager."
Player: "Obviously he's very much so a real football man and at the end of the day that's got to be 110% good for England."

They would have given the same answers if asked how they felt about Graham Turner, Pol Pot or Scooby Doo.

― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Monday, 30 April 2012 08:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

turner wouldn't of past fit and proper person test tho

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 08:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

What happens if Hodgson goes to the Euros and oversees a disastrous first-round exit?

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 30 April 2012 08:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

everybody's happy?

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 08:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost Graham Turner, unlike Hodgson or Arry, has international tournament wins on his CV – the Welsh Cup.

― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Monday, 30 April 2012 08:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol xp

― caek, Monday, 30 April 2012 08:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

I feel everyone's at opposite ends of a scale on Roy's time at Liverpool/standing as an intellectual colossus and that the truth is somewhere in the middle. His Liverpool reign was ultimately unsuccessful even allowing for the problems around him at the club. His record with most of his other teams has been very good - he's mostly a good manager.

As for the intellectual colossus thing, well compared to his incurious peers he's clearly well read, thoughtful, engaging, etc. but he's still prone to saying some stupid things (particularly when at Liverpool). Maybe it's to his credit that he didn't want to disingenuously feed the masses a get out of jail YNWA sound-bite or talk diversionary nonsense about commercial deals but it shows a lack of nous imo that he was effectively talking himself out of what could have been a great job for him if he'd bought himself more time.

― we are not bemused (onimo), Monday, 30 April 2012 09:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

5 million scots can enjoy the rest of the tournament
xxxxps

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Monday, 30 April 2012 09:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

onimotm of course, but i'm here to provide balance

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 09:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

How much of the job is BEING ENGLAND MANAGER and how much is resources, tactical strategy, overseeing youth development, etc.? Because if it's all about pleasing hacks and motivating self-entitled multimillionaires, things may get bleak for Roy.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 09:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's about the latter so that they listen to and follow the tactics, the hacks can be disregarded (or will fawn) if you manage that.

Really hoping he does what we thought capello would do- drop drop drop anyone with a hint of entitlement in their attitude or performance, start with a template of decent 'b' team players he can crack the whip over if needed.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 09:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

I don't know how he can pick Gerrard at least. His skied penalty against Blackburn to get Roy sacked (I think that was the final straw?) is the most shocking thing I've seen a player do outside of sundry deliberate Shawcrossings.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 09:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

hmm i've always shied away from calling that tbh, only he'll ever know.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 09:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

Did he deliberately miss that penalty? Also I want to know what Chris meant about Woy "spreading lies" about Rafa. Saying "Rafa signed some expensive, shit players" doesn't count.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 30 April 2012 09:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

Can't ever be sure obviously, but the way he carefully sidefooted it a foot over is very suspect imo. Especially in the immediate context, when you'd expect him to have smashed it.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 09:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

woy initimated that rafa treated dalglish badly, who knows if he did or not? rafa treated plenty of people badly, as i'm sure woy and dalglish themselves have done to get to the top of football management.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 09:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wonder if Redknapp will want the England job post-tournament? 'Cos that next 2 years is the boring bit, slogging through qualification with half a dozen games a year, no glory possible.

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's also the bit where you win games.

― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Monday, 30 April 2012 10:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

True, but followed by a tournament in South America where England have even less chance than normal.

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

How much of the job is BEING ENGLAND MANAGER and how much is resources, tactical strategy, overseeing youth development, etc.?

Does anyone know the answer to this? Because I can't see Harry being interested in the second bit, and you suspect nor could the panel.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:33 (1 year ago) Permalink

you can seperate tactics into 'putting them in the right place' and 'telling them to do the right things', but really it's baffling how often (i) has been a struggle for HR since xmas and (ii) consequently doesn't get a look in

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 10:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

Isn't (most of) the second bit Sirtrevor's job?

― Upt0eleven, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not sure. It used to all be Bobby Robson's job back in the day. I imagine it'd've changed by the time eg Keegan was appointed.

― Ismael Klata, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

you can seperate tactics into 'putting them in the right place' and 'telling them to do the right things', but really it's baffling how often (i) has been a struggle for HR since xmas and (ii) consequently doesn't get a look in

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:40 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hr has never been a good tactician, in the proper sense of the word. didn't vdv come in and say how happy he was that hr doesn't do any of the stuff jose did and just says something nice and motivational and tells him to just play? and when that doesn't work, he just 'as a go wheeling and dealing and gets rid of him.

― Thoughts? You must have loads. (a hoy hoy), Monday, 30 April 2012 10:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

my idea of intellectual colossus = Alan Turing, Perry Anderson

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

Roy Hodgson = charmingly, cheeringly literate, well-read, multilingual, gracious, gentlemanly football manager

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/9235783/Is-Harry-Redknapp-paying-the-price-for-being-a-maverick-like-Brian-Clough.html

Hayward reacts

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 10:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

in footballing context hodgson is several layers above a god in intellectual terms- though his gut instincts may not match the backstreet smarts of many more successful- or popular- managers

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

I was waiting for the comparison to Clough. I must have slept through Harry winning the European Cup and League Championship.

― pandemic, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

yep

I do like the idea of RH clearing out dead wood and older ego players
and replacing with hungry young ones, planning for next few years
can almost imagine this working

though it probably won't happen

― the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2012 11:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

ehhhh, not comparing them favourably nor saying doing it with forest wasn't incredible, but neither competition the same then as now.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Monday, 30 April 2012 11:12 (1 year ago) Permalink