Yeah Capote was basically saying, possibly inaccurately, that Kerouac just shat it out without putting much thought or craft into it.
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:14 (twelve years ago) link
sigh
― thomp, Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:19 (twelve years ago) link
Gore Vidal's essays consist of three dozen zings strung together.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
xp - i think it would be more accurately analysed down to "I distrust the veracity of Kerouac's claim that he wrote it in three days and, anyway, if so, this would not impact its literary value, and certainly would not impress its value upon me, as Kerouac seems to think it would"
by this point the fun of it is sort of dead, though
― thomp, Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:22 (twelve years ago) link
Well, that's pretty much what I was saying. And I disagree that working in that way is necessarily detrimental to good art - hence my defence of phenomenological writing. Obviously, not all art created in such a way will be good, but to suggest that it is simply not writing is fallacious.
xposts
― emil.y, Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
literary zings are usually a lil too on the nose almost as if some lonely person fuming w/professional jealousy puzzled over them in a room until they got it just right
this is confusing way of thinking to me
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
great zing lawyers throughout history
― dayo, Sunday, 29 April 2012 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
worth posting, for those who haven't seen: http://billanddavescocktailhour.com/the-churchill-wit/
― s.clover, Sunday, 29 April 2012 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
I like Gore Vidal's famous one from just after Norman Mailer had decked him - "as usual, words fail him".
― Homosexual Satan Wasp (Matt DC), Sunday, 29 April 2012 18:08 (twelve years ago) link
i will never understand 'too on the nose' as a criticism
'this thing is as it should be, only, too much so'
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 29 April 2012 18:24 (twelve years ago) link
maybe because thats not what it means
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 18:26 (twelve years ago) link
i do believe its possible that you will some day understand it tho
"If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised."
i've seen this quote with "vassar" instead of "the yale prom" elsewhere
― madame boo berry (donna rouge), Sunday, 29 April 2012 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
lagoon's criticism is basically "oh yeah mr. witty person, with yr stinkin' wit, there, and your BOOKS? well I bet you have ~no social life~ lol"
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 29 April 2012 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
― s.clover, Sunday, April 29, 2012 2:00 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
lol
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Sunday, 29 April 2012 19:50 (twelve years ago) link
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, April 29, 2012 3:47 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is a v poor reading!
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
it's a v. poor reading... LOUSY BOOKS
― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 29 April 2012 19:59 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i thought he was just saying that 'zings' are more a product of real time communication (IRL conversation, internet etc) than written correspondence or literature
― some dude, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:02 (twelve years ago) link
that and a lot of them are just 'i throw yr book out the window!' oohhhh
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:05 (twelve years ago) link
like why is nabokov pretending faulkner is some sort of horrible writer, he mad
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:07 (twelve years ago) link
i demand veracity in my zings
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:08 (twelve years ago) link
i think it's a little short-sighted to not acknowledge that there was a huge gulf of culture and context between capote and kerouac or nabakov and faulkner, just because they're all in the canon now doesn't mean one guy was a moron for not loving another, let them have their salty putdowns
― some dude, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:11 (twelve years ago) link
oh they can have them
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:13 (twelve years ago) link
to be sure most literary greats were often lonely guys sitting in rooms fuming with professional jealousy, it just seems silly to knock them for that like every other zinger in this thread was a super confident rock star
― some dude, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:21 (twelve years ago) link
i have nothing against lonely guys in rooms but the desk gangster routine is just kinda tiresome when its so clearly motivated by professional competition, i mean there are some quality zings iit but a lot of them just dont land imho
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:27 (twelve years ago) link
anyway ive clearly become that which i most despise re my initial zing scholar post, everyone plz post the zings
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
you're putting a little too much effort into summarizing ilx there bro
xpost
― some dude, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
meta thread grubbing
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
Brummell after being snubbed by the Prince Regent : "Lol, Alvanley, who's your fat friend?"
― Sébastien, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
zingin baout things
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
i have nothing against lonely guys in rooms but the desk gangster routine is just kinda tiresome when its so clearly motivated by professional competition
don't overlook the pleasure of unmitigated malice though.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
icey otm to the extent that some of these literary zings are excessively artificed, lapidary to a fault but more like a studied reduction of bile than bile itself
― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:48 (twelve years ago) link
and when it's just some deskbound bpd case like capote or a pinchfaced cocksucker like martin amis then it's just so much imaginary soirée squabbling bereft of the timing and event of the real thing
― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:51 (twelve years ago) link
"Pinchfaced cocksucker" is for Amis a compliment.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 April 2012 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
Casey Stengel had maybe the greatest accidental zing ever: "I got a kid, Greg Goosen, he's 20 years old and in ten years he's got a chance to be 30." (You'll come across a dozen slightly different versions of this.)
― clemenza, Sunday, 29 April 2012 21:01 (twelve years ago) link
By calling that accidental, I'm probably buying into the caricature of Stengel as a doddering old man; he was exceptionally smart about baseball, and may have known exactly what he was saying about Goosen there.
― clemenza, Sunday, 29 April 2012 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
Greatest cricket sledge zing of all time:
Glenn McGrath to Eddo Brandes: "How come you're so fucking fat?"Brandes: "Because every time I fuck your wife she gives me a biscuit"
― Touché Gödel (ledge), Sunday, 29 April 2012 21:31 (twelve years ago) link
Rufus T. Firefly: Not that I care, but where is your husband?"Gloria Teasdale: Why, he's dead.Rufus T. Firefly: I bet he's just using that as an excuse.Gloria Teasdale: I was with him til the very end.Rufus T. Firefly: No wonder he passed away.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
from the same scene: Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you.
― Mordy, Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:27 (twelve years ago) link
i could swear i saw a clip of capote actually saying that kerouac line, but that what he actually said was "that isn't writing, that's...just...TYPEWRITING!"
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:34 (twelve years ago) link
this isnt handwriting, its typewriting! *gets the vapors*
― lag∞n, Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:35 (twelve years ago) link
Also, I've read a bit of Nabokov's literary criticism now, and for someone who can reach the heights he can (for which read: OMG Pale Fire is amazing) he's pretty buttoned up and conservative in his thinking...
i kinda think of nabokov's critical views as just an extension of his artistic character, no less than any of his novels -- most of his interviews have the exact same 'voice' as most of his fiction. it's funny that he claimed to hate 'death in venice,' since 'lolita' could be read as an answer to it (or a parody of it).
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:47 (twelve years ago) link
tbh i've come to feel that gore vidal's zings are probably his best and most lasting works of art. i tried picking up that huge book of his essays a while back and most of them are a slog.
Ignore the political writing and concentrate on the lit crit (the lit crit is political too): his essays on Mencken, James, Wharton -- classic explication de text. And he deserves credit for reviving interest in Dawn Powell and James Purdy, not to mention breaking Calvino on these shores.
I'll defend Burr and Lincoln as great novels too.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:51 (twelve years ago) link
i have nothing against lonely guys in rooms but the desk gangster routine is just kinda tiresome
Really considering this for a display name.
― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 29 April 2012 22:52 (twelve years ago) link
a zing of beauty doesn't need all this contextual analysis, nor does it need to be an instant riposte nor a product of bile, sometimes a zing's just a zing, here's something mean about u i thought of, lol. *telegrams churchill*. Medium's not rly that important imo.
― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
a zing of beauty is a joy forever
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
Drunk Jack Kerouac at poetry reading: Frank O'Hara, you're destroying American poetry!
O'Hara: That's more than you've ever done for it.
― President Keyes, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
darragh OTM
― Choc. Clusterman (contenderizer), Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah IMO, that is why ILX can be funny to read, like obviously once it gets to be an intense clusterfuck thread it's not fun at all but when it's something milder and I have no personal horse in the race, watching people throw off rejoinders and ripostes, when they're good, is really entertaining. And ILX is great for this because, behind the more visible monuments of the heated vicious threads, there's a whole lot of people killing time talking about something that nobody actually takes all that seriously.
― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 29 April 2012 23:52 (twelve years ago) link