GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

x-post I totally don't remember that either though it seems to have aired during a time when I couldn't afford cable and only got Pax christian programming which aired p much only touched by an angel and 7th heaven.

once and again, I mean

once and again is top ten all-time for me. love it 4ever.

friday night lights had an abortion.

she calls it a word alert lmao

oh shit, yeah, FNL. I knew I had seen one on TV in the past few years.

everwood was the show chris pratt was on

obviously no one here watches my little pony

Their glimmers of reality are undone by artifice and attitude.

no offence or anything but i find it hard to believe someone would say this about a show where the principle characters weren't four women, for whatever reason.

second episode so much sharper and funnier than the pilot, which is how it should be. really love zofia mamet, too.

Imagine someone writing "their glimmers of reality are undone by artifice and attitude" about Entourage.

Yeah. I can't.

And much as I enjoyed series 2-4, I think Entourage is an infinitely more facile and substance-free show than SATC.

Their glimmers of reality are undone by artifice and attitude.

no offence or anything but i find it hard to believe someone would say this about a show where the principle characters weren't four women, for whatever reason.

Why would I not say this about other shows? Entourage is without a doubt stupider, more facile, more all sorts of negative things than the vast majority of shows. But "Girls" has a higher bar, imo, in that it is set in some sort of real world, rather than in a rarified parallel universe of privilege (like Friends or Entourage or Woody Allen movies or whatever). Even SATC is only about as real-world as your one-set average sitcom; there's no pretense of lol we are the 99% reality. The characters of Girls might be in their own respective worlds, but their environment is at least recognizable (to me) as reality based, diversity aside. Ergo, the character contrivances irk me. Now, it would be fair of me to admit that, say, the contrivances of "The Wire" did not irk me, but then, "The Wire" existed to serve a larger plot/story, if that makes sense. Its characters were important, but they had a narrative to serve. In "Girls," the cast is the sole attraction; there is no plot, per se, not yet, so I wish they were more compelling. Which maybe they will become if the show generates any gravity. But right now, there is nothing at stake, which to me makes it feel lightweight.

I guess I don't really see the character contrivances you're hinting are present in Girls, or that they're particularly more contrived than the shows you mention. I don't see much in the way of artifice in Girls, tbh. And I don't really understand what you mean by "attitude".

What exactly must a situation comedy have "at stake" for you to be invested in it, for it not to be "lightweight"? What sitcoms, for you, are not "lightweight"?

louie and uh....
uh....

Well, I guess that's the crux of my (again, academic) problems with the show. By attitude I mean approach; I'm really not sure how to classify it. It's not a comedy, really, though it can be funny. It's not escapist, though these are not lives like mine. It's not aspirational. I don't find it particularly dramatic. Which is why it's sort of hovering in a vacuum for me. I'm not really rooting for them. I'm not rooting against them. If these four girls decided not to be friends, I wouldn't care. If they ended up homeless, or living at home, I wouldn't care. It's early, but I suppose by "at stake" I mean a compelling reason to follow their lives. It doesn't have to be life and death. But as the second ep showed, it could even be sort of blase and passive about abortion, so I wonder if it will build toward something or simply hover in stasis as a sort of Gen Y mumblecore exercise. I hope it doesn't, but I could easily imagine the tone staying this steady for the duration.

otm

It's a blog!!!

THERE HAVE BEEN TWO EPISODES!

christ

AND IT'S ONLY A TV SHOW!

jesus

I WANT TO SHOUT TOO!

our lord and savior

People actually watch Entourage? I think I tried watching it and, unlike some shows that do work for me, I didn't like any of the characters AND I pretty much found what they were doing either horrible or uninteresting. There are shows where I loathe all the characters but I find the show interesting, but that sure wasn't one of them.

It's not a comedy, really, though it can be funny.

see, such generic concerns don't really bother me. the second episode made my other half and i guffaw aloud numerous times, which has never repeat never happened whenever i've had the misfortune to catch how i met your mother or similar.

i agree the show's not escapist or aspirational. and my life's not much like theirs, but it has the smack of truth about it. and it's really funny. that's enough to keep me watching, tbh, and i don't feel anything about it that's much more artificial than most good sitcoms on at the moment, excepting Louie.

seasons 2-4 of entourage the characters are sorta likable, and the inherent misogyny of their banter is more muted.

it's funny, all josh in chicago's criticisms/personal reasons for not being into the show reflect why i like the show. the show itself is a curious entity.

it's funny, all josh in chicago's criticisms/personal reasons for not being into the show tl;dr

fwiw maybe it's because I've not lived in a city the size of Chicago or NYC but the backdrop of Girls seems just as fake as most other shows. Well, not Friends or whatever, but still pretty fake. I think the closer something is to your experience, the more you're willing to forgive the set piece bits of it.

seasons 2-4 of entourage the characters are sorta likable, and the inherent misogyny of their banter is more muted.

― Bad Company's Drummer's Daughter (stevie), Thursday, April 26, 2012 10:25 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah...i remember a certain point where johnny drama started talking about 'banging whores' or something and i was like woah did this show get nastier or am i looking at the funnier early seasons through rose tinted glasses?

there is a guy they refer to as johnny drama

case closed

I like how Entourage, a show about four male buddies who would occasionally get into some trouble only for it to be resolved within 30 minutes by sheer luck/coincidence/absolutely no agency on their part at all, just in time for them to be in super expensive cars/jets/overlooking a city/by a pool with women and say "bros, we really made it", just sort of skates by with 7 seasons despite being a disgusting, 'aspirational', paen to shallow consumerism and idiotic misogyny, and somehow "Girls" gets picked apart after two episodes because it "should be better". That's less of a pointed criticism at Josh in Chicago than it is at the general tenor of internet blathering about this, btw.

Everyone should remember that it's perfectly cool if a show isn't your bag. That's totally fine. It doesn't make you a bad person to not be into this show.

I don't agree with JiC's specific complaints, but again, we're only two episodes in. I thought the first was pretty pilot-y in that it had to stretch credible human behaviour to set the larger plot in motion, which about 95% of pilots tend to do, as well as it having some sort of tonal missteps because they haven't quite figured out the show they're making, like 99.9% of all pilots do (hell, even Deadwood has some major disconnects in its pilot compared to the rest of the series).

As far as not serving a larger arc, there were clear narrative threads set up in the first episode that have been continued in the second episode: Hannah loses her job -> goes to a job interview in ep2. Marnie is dissatisfied with her loving, respectful, drip of a boyfriend -> continues to be in episode 2, and moves further into rationalizations about the guilt she feels for being just plain bored with him/meanwhile both contrasted with Hannah's relationship with Andy. Jessa turns up in episode 1, there are some tensions between her and Marnie, Jessa turns out to be pregnant -> Marnie tries to make a better impression on Jessa in ep 2 by setting up the abortion for the pregnancy which allows for Hannah to get an STD check to clear up her anxieties (even if they're misplaced) -> based on the teaser for ep3, the STD test plays a part.

And all of that is in 2 episodes.

Again, totally cool to NOT like a show about 24 year-old white girls in Brooklyn. This is the internet, after all, and a dislike of 24 year-old white girls in Brooklyn is basically its dilithium crystal. Still, I think trying to fob it off as a TV version of the kind of navel-gazing Joe Swanberg borefest mumblecore films like Alexander the Last is unfair.

man why am i spending time defending this show

sometimes, we look with a critical eye at the things we like and enjoy, because frankly, we are critical people and the stuff we do not like isn't even worth discussing

i found the last couple of seasons unwatchable. the season with the porn star in it was just risible. but s2-4 are kind of charming.

well entourage 'skated by' cause ilx types didn't really watch it that much

there were a few fairly active Entourage threads! but yeah it didn't get much close analysis because c'mon who the fuck is going to do that even if they like it

i tried entourage and found it to be, briefly, a guilty pleasure watch it rarely show
then i caught some random episode that was so fucking stupid that i never tried it again. it was during the aquaman storyline. when was that? second/third season?
another vote for veep; that had some very good moments.

I dunno I searched before posting that and they all have like 50 posts

aquaman season was the best! still stupid but def the show's peak.

well entourage 'skated by' cause ilx types didn't really watch it that much

yeah i'm not really talking about ilx here i guess

3-4 threads with 50 or so posts is exactly what i meant by "a few fairly active Entourage threads"

If I recall, Entourage was widely derided as basically a male Sex in the City, but Entourage's misogyny - not to mention its shallowness, materialism, et al. - was far worse than SatC's respective sins. Though I suppose Entourage was pure escapism - not a lot turning in that engine.

How many eps is Girls slated to have per season? Six? Eight? Ten?

Gukbe, you're right that there's a lot going on, but that's pretty typical for TV, no? The A story, B story, C story, etc. It's massively efficient at cramming stuff in. If anything, there's actually too much going on, which I read as a one of its contrivances. One thing I liked about Downton Abbey was that there were often several months that passed between episodes, so it got less bogged down in the minutia of linear storytelling and was able to bobble all its characters with broader, even more efficient strokes. That is, a lot happened, but it glossed over the quotidian in favor of the big picture.

the first season of Girls will have 10 episodes, so everyone get ready to post "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT A SHOW WITH ONLY TEN EPISODES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" over and over in two months

I'd say it's typical for cable TV, yes, but I was specifically answering your criticism that it doesn't seem to be going anywhere and that it's hovering in a vacuum, when i found there to be clear narrative thrust and character arcs. Again, two episodes in and I think it's hard to know a "bigger picture" just now, but it's hardly like they're just throwing in random elements whenever just for a gag or 'to make a point', though I'm not really against them doing that either.

Downton Abbey is probably one of the worst offenders as far as contrivances that I've seen recently, tbh. I don't think the spacing apart makes the ridiculousness any more plausible (I like Downton, btw, even if only on the level of very pretty trash, and ignoring it's crazily offensive themes). A whole season of Deadwood might take place over the course of about three weeks, and Milch follows a one episode = one day rule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fpW1thGues

Entourage didn't seem all that aspirational, they all kind of hated their lives.

wha?

Turtle was always busy trying to become who he was iirc

guess Ari did have some arguments with his hot wife

Downton Abbey is like the epitome of campy contrivance. But I liked how (season one) rolled out.

Entourage, iirc, was about meditative self-reflection and the push/pull of independence and autonomy vs. the promise of wealth and reward, complicated by the loss/confusion of self amidst the things we own and buy. It's totally existential, dude. It's also, like, post-feminist. Or something.

true enough. that time Drama and Turtle both took on that chick at sundance and 'crossed swords' was a deeply moving examination about sexuality and identity.

i was always v mystified re entourage, like it didnt have a plot