except that GZ's self-defense argument depends on portraying martin as an immediate threat requiring deadly force???
― zubaz fupa (elmo argonaut), Monday, 23 April 2012 14:01 (twelve years ago) link
I thought he was a little bit younger than I was, and I did not know if he was armed or not.
Anything GZ says about his frame of mind in regard to this shooting should be thrown away as worthless, unless he takes the stand in a trial and subjects himself to a searching cross-examination by a prosecutor, while under oath. Even then he would almost certainly lie, but at least a judge or jury could test his story against their inner lie detectors.
― Aimless, Monday, 23 April 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
A few updates.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:23 (twelve years ago) link
Reading that "Zimmerman isn't such a bad guy, and problems in the neighborhood, blah blah blah," after a complicit media let dead-enders run around for more than a month with all the hoodie- fake Facebook photo- school suspension-thug crap about Trayvon, just makes me absolutely livid.
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 22:58 (twelve years ago) link
yep. that was about as depressing as I expected it to be.
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
It's funny, how little of a shit I give about whether Zimmerman seemed like a nice guy to people or not.
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
yeah this. I've tried to keep opinions to myself until the inevitability of the levee breaking, which is difficult when you advise a college newspaper staff whose staff is a quarter black. What's awful is how the media has behaved as shamefully as usual yet we were still swept along.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:18 (twelve years ago) link
there are a lot of big questions wrapped up in this case and "does George Zimmerman hate black people?" is kinda not even the central one. It does seem pretty clear that he judged Trayvon based on the color of his skin/his age/his clothes and Trayvon is dead because of it. That the cops didn't see fit to charge him is also pretty clearly institutionalized racism at work but whatever
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
that article is like Don Rickles' "I'm a nice guy!" routine
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
the cops didn't charge him because of Florida's Stand Your Ground law.
― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
which I'm sure is judiciously applied in every case regardless of skin color
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
if Trayvon had shot Zimmerman he would have been arrested and you know it
"He was following me and acting crazy! I thought he had a gun!"
"into the county lockup with you young man"
― heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
yup
― catbus otm (gbx), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:23 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120403/articles/120409919
― dayo, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/24/justice/ac360-stand-your-ground-law/index.html
― dayo, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what should the media have done? Dig into Trayvon's life to try and refute the "dead-enders"? The media was reluctant to root around in the personal life of a teenager who had been killed, understandably.
― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 26 April 2012 00:09 (twelve years ago) link
media not so reluctant to root around the personal life of man who killed teenager, apparently
― I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Thursday, 26 April 2012 06:55 (twelve years ago) link
that reuters article was depressing as fuck btw
I was talking about this with my father-in-law this weekend
not really looking good for Florida IMO
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Thursday, 26 April 2012 13:49 (twelve years ago) link
I thought that traditional self-defense was based on whether a 'reasonable person' was credibly frightened for their life. SYG law or not, I can see both GZ and the lady in this article trying to make that case, perhaps her more than GZ since her husband had already put her in the hospital and been jailed for it and she didn't even aim her gun at him.
― L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Thursday, 26 April 2012 14:32 (twelve years ago) link
Zimmerman's MySpace "less than flattering"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/zimmerman-myspace-page_n_1471818.html?1335986666&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl2|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D157289
― dow, Wednesday, 2 May 2012 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
top two banners:
http://img-cdn.mediaplex.com/0/8975/03565_hoodies_728x90_revised_01.jpghttp://images.huffingtonpost.com/bignews/classic_blog/topics/2649798/image_1335817801.jpeg
― a la bouquet marmoset (Austerity Ponies), Thursday, 3 May 2012 13:47 (twelve years ago) link
Stay classy, Florida
― Love Max Ophüls of us all (Michael White), Friday, 11 May 2012 17:15 (eleven years ago) link
don't even mouseover that link much less click it
― hot slag (lukas), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
yes, but is it racist?!?
― the late great, Friday, 11 May 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
awww, i just, awww man
― arby's, Friday, 11 May 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
In an email exchange with a reporter from KSAT sister station WKMG in Orlando, the seller wrote, "My main motivation was to make money off the controversy."
― thommys got bendz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 11 May 2012 20:43 (eleven years ago) link
mission accomplished
― frogbs, Friday, 11 May 2012 20:57 (eleven years ago) link
Also, a black woman in Florida has just been sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot at her abusive husband, which she tried to justify under "stand your ground" but got the book thrown at her.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/florida-stand-ground-sentencing/index.html
― The Reverend, Saturday, 12 May 2012 00:28 (eleven years ago) link
The case was prosecuted by the same state attorney as Zimmerman.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 12 May 2012 00:29 (eleven years ago) link
honestly, though i don't know all the details, that case is almost as infuriating as the martin/zimmerman business
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
seriously.
― The Reverend, Saturday, 12 May 2012 00:40 (eleven years ago) link
i've been trying to figure out how the case of cece winans plays in here:
Around 12:30 am, CeCe was walking to the grocery store with some friends, all of them young, African American, and either queer or allied. As they passed a local bar, the Schooner Tavern, a group of older, white people who were standing outside the bar’s side door began hurling racist and transphobic slurs at them, without provocation. They called CeCe and her friends ‘faggots,’ ‘niggers,’ and ‘chicks with dicks,’ and suggested that CeCe was ‘dressed as a woman’ in order to ‘rape’ Dean Schmitz, one of the attackers. When CeCe approached the group and told them that her crew would not tolerate hate speech, one of the women said, “I’ll take you bitches on,” and then smashed her glass into CeCe’s face. She punctured CeCe’s cheek all the way through, lacerating her salivary gland. A fight ensued, during which one of the attackers, Dean Schmitz, was fatally stabbed.
come to find out after the fact that the guy had a history of violence and a swastika tattooed on his chest, both facts deemed inadmissable in trial (while a bad check cece wrote once was accepted as evidence of her character). the woman who smash the glass into cece's face wasn't charged with anything.
cece was just found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to 41 months.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 12 May 2012 14:52 (eleven years ago) link
Cece McDonald, it turns out. I was thinking "Cece Winans? That doesn't sound right. Maybe Cece Penniston...nope, not her either." So off to google I went.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 12 May 2012 15:02 (eleven years ago) link
i mean it doesn't 'play in' legally obv but the moral territory is interesting for me in that obv i'd like zimmerman to go down like a fuckin battleship but i'm also in a mileu of people yelling FREE CECE and i'm trying to work through whether or not i'm cool with yelling FREE CECE
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 12 May 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
oh woops lmao xp
The general narrative wrt this stuff is becoming "think twice about defending yourself if you're not white and heteronormative".
This country gets lucky so many times every day that there's no 'DEL U.S.' key on my word processor of the gods.
― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Saturday, 12 May 2012 15:30 (eleven years ago) link
Assholes are everywhere, not just the U.S. Only we gear the laws in their favor.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 12 May 2012 15:31 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, and i'm kind of shocked by my own naivete in being surprised that this is the case
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Saturday, 12 May 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
laws geared in their favor everywhere tbh
― balls, Saturday, 12 May 2012 18:29 (eleven years ago) link
yea the cece mcdonald case is i guess a little dicier morally than the martin/zimmerman case, still given the details i know p sure i'm in the free cece camp.
― arby's, Sunday, 13 May 2012 01:09 (eleven years ago) link
yeah
i put a few more seconds thought into this and i'm free cece all the way
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 13 May 2012 01:29 (eleven years ago) link
kind of difficult to make an informed judgment given only the info in hoos' quote tbh
― dharunravir (k3vin k.), Sunday, 13 May 2012 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
glass smasher not catching a charge seems weird tho
more here
http://www.citypages.com/2012-05-09/news/cece-mcdonald-murder-trial/
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 13 May 2012 02:27 (eleven years ago) link
it's interesting to compare these two cases and then try to decide how i feel about "stand your ground" legislation in general. there are circumstances in which i agree that people are justified in responding forcefully to threats and violence. otoh, there are circumstances in which i think the decision to counter perceived danger with violence should not be legally protected. i feel that i can sort the former from the latter in a way that makes sense to me, personally, but it's very hard to clearly articulate the difference in concrete terms.
― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Sunday, 13 May 2012 06:41 (eleven years ago) link
Based on the city pages article, even in a state without that awful "kill your enemies" law, this ought to have been manslaughter with a much lighter sentence, and maybe even an acquittal on traditional self-defense grounds; in Florida, this should have been the world's easiest stand your ground acquittal.
― Three Word Username, Sunday, 13 May 2012 09:16 (eleven years ago) link
It's also pretty clear that McDonald's well-meaning attorneys were way out of their league.
― Three Word Username, Sunday, 13 May 2012 09:24 (eleven years ago) link
41 months is not bad imo obv prison's no cakewalk but if you take a life self-defense or no doesn't it seem like there has to be some penalty attached?
― cosi fan whitford (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 13 May 2012 12:21 (eleven years ago) link