jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

xp i think it's just because chickenpox is a motherfucker when you're old

no shit, this is what i was saying. my mom was trying to have us get it when we were younger and it didn't work

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

anti- vaccine ppls. creationists have been around for a few thousand years.

― Every Day Jimmy Mod Is Hustlin' (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

it didn't work=obv. my cousins weren't contagious enough.

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

or maybe you're blaming them for your inability to get sick

― Every Day Jimmy Mod Is Hustlin' (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

you failure

― Every Day Jimmy Mod Is Hustlin' (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe i should have eaten their pox scabs like Mom suggested

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

or maybe they weren't contagious anymore

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

these antivaccine people remind me of those who thought letterboxing was blocking out parts of films they had seen in the theater

― shook pwns (omar little), Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:48 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahaha otm

― tired (latebloomer), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

kennedy jr. seems like a good guy at first but the more you read about him the more you realize dude is kinda creepy

― velko, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

The ILM "last.fm" thread would suggest McCarthy has a lot of work ahead of her.

loud LOL

― J0hn D., Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

pretty sure these will also cure pretty much anything: http://www.quantumagewater.com/

― J0hn D., Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe i should have eaten their pox scabs like Mom suggested

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:53 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

The concept of immunity may have existed long before [Thucydides], as suggested by the ancient Chinese custom of making children resistant to smallpox by having them inhale powders made from the skin lesions of patients recovering from the disease.

^^^^ from my textbook!

― i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's fun to make fun of britishers for having royalty and stuff but the fact that this doctor guy in the NYT article can't state his position without getting death threats is majorly fucked up

xpost: lolllllllllllllllllll

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 02:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

My school has let us help out at some big free public flu vaccination events. The first time I did it, it was offered free to kids and families, and adults had to pay like $25 or something. A woman asked us if she could get the vaccine for free if she came back with her grandson, except that the grandson wouldn't be getting a flu shot, just her. I wanted to yell very loudly "SERIOUSLY THEY TOOK THIMEROSAL OUT OF VACCINES IN BRITAIN AND AUTISM WENT UP!" But I did not.

She did not end up getting a vaccine, since she was unwilling to give us $25 or let her grandson get autism from our poisonous needles. I would have been more concerned about letting a first-year med student inject you using a technique learned roughly one hour beforehand, but that's just me.

― C-L, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

hmmmm...this reminds me of back when spin magazine kept saying there was no connection between HIV and AIDS

Oh, that belief is still around and fueled largely by the work of Peter Duesberg at Berkley. Mbeki used Duesberg's work to advise his AIDS policies in SA.

http://www.duesberg.com/index.html

I just found out that another famous AIDS denialist (and Duesberg follower) Christine Maggiore died of pneumonia a couple of weeks ago. Her daughter whom she never had tested or treated for HIV, died at age 3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Maggiore

― Too Into Dancing to Argue (ENBB), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

i saw some shit on the today show about how they have "chicken pox" parties where ppl send their kids to some kid's house who has chicken pox to try and see if their kids can catch it or something...is that part of this whole anti-vaccine thing?

― ie: BANGING (M@tt He1ges0n), Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:41 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

nah, that's basically just natural vaccination ie acquired immunity.

― i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:45 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i remember parents doing this in the 70s and 80s. it was just a way to be sure your kid didnt get c.pox later when it would be much worse. so, yeah, what gbx said.

― tacos, fettucini, linguini, martini, bikini. (sunny successor), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

or maybe they weren't contagious anymore

maybe they weren't really contagious ;)

― Lightbulb Classic (sic), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

I was invited to some chicken pox parties when I was a kid but my mom held out in hopes a vaccine would come along so I wouldn't have to catch it at all...ended up getting it in 5th grade, i think the vaccine had been rolled out about the same time

― miss precious perfect (musically), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

I had it when I was four so badly that it was down my throat and under my eyelids. The kids in the hood should have come over my house, I probably could have infected the whole town.

― Too Into Dancing to Argue (ENBB), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:35 (4 years ago) Permalink

I had chickenpox and the mumps as a kid, bleugh.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 03:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

Interesting that you started this thread just today, gbx, as it looks like the British Journal of Psychology is coming out with an article tying autism to exposure to high levels of testosterone in the womb.

I went to a local chiropractor recently to get a massage and there was a whole anti-vaccination book in the lobby. It was impressively badly written, and included the point that vaccines may not even work, as there has "never been" a study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated people's disease rates. I am not sure I can pay money to get a massage there again, because the massage was awesome, but I don't want to give money to stupid people.

― Sara R-C, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

my wife is a virologist and this shit makes her foam at the mouth

― some dude, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

btw this was touched on a bit but not too much on this thread: wrongheaded pop medical movements/diagnoses

― some dude, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

and this one

IT aspies

― Edward III, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

so sick of jenny mccarthy milking her kids autism for 15 more minutes of fame.

― sanskrit, Tuesday, April 15, 2008 3:14 PM (8 months ago)

she blames diets
she blames the vaccines
but she never seems to blame all the dicks she took in the 90s

― sanskrit, Tuesday, April 15, 2008 3:14 PM (8 months ago)

^^^^ REALEST OF TALK

― velko, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

I wonder if people get involved with this movement just because deep down they're terrified of needles.

― tired (latebloomer), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:54 (4 years ago) Permalink

I had a moral crisis over thanksgiving because my sister-in-law was like "can you copy a couple DVDs for me?" and I said "sure" thinking it was gonna be a copy of baby mama or something and she dropped off some crazyass anti-vaccine DVDs. to maintain family peace I held my tongue and kept telling myself that anybody with any sense isn't gonna be swayed by this bullshit.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

a couple i'm very good friends w/ have a young daughter and are kind of buying this bullshit and i think skimping on her vaccines or intending to in the future, and it really takes all the willpower i have not to get into a shouting match with them about this because man you don't wanna tell people how to raise their kids, especially when you're not a parent yourself

― some dude, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 04:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

I really try to be respectful when discussing this with people, but I do find it frustrating because unfortunately when enough people stop vaccinating, the risk for those diseases they have chosen to not vaccinate goes up even to people who have been vaccinated. (Not to mention the people who, for whatever reason, cannot receive those particular vaccines - i.e. allergy to eggs or immunosuppression, etc.)

― Sara R-C, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:04 (4 years ago) Permalink

BTW ZS: I might be wrong about the book! Maybe crazy aunt lady said she saw McCarthy *appear* on Oprah. I dunno. I'd had a few drinks.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I just found out that another famous AIDS denialist (and Duesberg follower) Christine Maggiore died of pneumonia a couple of weeks ago. Her daughter whom she never had tested or treated for HIV, died at age 3.

I started following Christine Maggiore about 10 years ago when I first went into HIV/AIDS primary care and thought, "she's gonna kill a lot of people" and damned if she didn't. When I heard that she had a 2nd kid, declined the AZT, and breastfed, I knew one of 'em would end up dead.

The LA Times did a great piece on her after LJ's death and Respectful Insolence has had a lot of posts on her and the AIDS denial movement since her death.

― kate78, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kate - thanks for those links. I can't believe that I hadn't heard about her death until this evening. It'll def be interesting to read RI posts about the topic.

― Too Into Dancing to Argue (ENBB), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

a - i have never had chicken pox, which i hope means that i got it as an infant and no one noticed, otherwise o_O
b - these antivaccine people are stunningly dumb fucks

― R. L. Stinebeck (John Justen), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

As far as the antivaccine fuckwads go, they are usually the people who think they are oh-so-progressive by not vaccinating their kids. How progressive is it to allow the rest of your community to assume the low risk vaccines pose so you can benefit from herd immunity? Assholes.

As much as I don't want to see little children get sick and die for their parent's misguided convictions, I think it's gonna take a big, scary epidemic of a previously-bygone disease to kill a bunch of upper-middle class kids to get this quackery to die out. And the worst thing is that it's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'.

xpost, no prob ENBB!
John Justen, get vaccinated tomorrow.

― kate78, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

Let me also take this chance, as the ilxor public health nurse, to remind everyone to have their boosters. I diagnosed a whooping cough epidemic at my college radio station last year, so git those shots!

― kate78, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Wait, people are taking anecdotal evidence from a pornstar over the opinion of the majority of doctors?

I know it's pretty cliche but seriously wtf USA?

― milling through the grinder, grinding through the mill (S-), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

i think you are thinking of jenna jameson dude

― R. L. Stinebeck (John Justen), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, Jenny McCarthy is apparently Jim Carrey's girlfriend, which gives her a bit more fame than she'd otherwise have.

Also, yes, McCarthy has a book out about autism and "curing" her son; I caught her on Oprah one afternoon. She makes me cringe.

John, I can't believe you haven't gotten that vaccine yet, ffs.

― Sara R-C, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:43 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah isnt Jenny Mccarthy from 90210 or something?

― Trayce, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

jenny mccarthy will always & forever just be that girl on that dating show on mtv.

― ian, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

jenny mccarthy isn't the problem and has next to nothing to do with the problem
she sure is an easy target for rational skeptic smartaguy bloggerers though

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

Dude you cant cure autism.

― Trayce, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

i was actually completely unaware that there was a chicken pox vaccine, no lie.

― R. L. Stinebeck (John Justen), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^^no, but she's annoying as hell, plus she spreads disinformation all over the place.

The problem is that people don't understand basic science or logical fallacies. Good luck fixing that!

― Sara R-C, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

yah i was just coming here to post that too xpost

― just1n3, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

how long has the chicken pox vacc been around?

― just1n3, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

Years. A decade, at least.

― kate78, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp You probably want to get the vaccine; you really don't want to get chicken pox as an adult. No one tells adults about it because they assume you've had chicken pox. Unfortunately, this is a bad assumption to make. I had a friend who contracted chicken pox when she was 2 months pregnant. NOT COOL.

― Sara R-C, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:50 (4 years ago) Permalink

the problem is that the public health system in this county is grossly politicized (by businesses, non-profits, and our elected reps) and has a ludicrously awful track record of being slow, ignorant, purposefully obtuse, and flat-out lying to the public about the risks of you-name-it, for most of the last century, in fact. And you have trained, experienced medical professionals who get fed the fuck up with the system and decide that the way to "fix things" is to write a book or go on television instead of continually publishing peer reviewed research, and it ends up sort of working for them because patients don't read peer reviewed literature, patients read bestsellers and watch teevee.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:51 (4 years ago) Permalink

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to thread

― caek, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 05:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

ugh AP, I got halfway through that before I had to stop

― Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Monday, 15 April 2013 18:59 (1 month ago) Permalink

I am kind of glad I have not encountered these anti-vac autism parents in real life, because I have a great deal of sympathy for their situation yet I don't think I could be very patient or kind in dealing with their irrationality wrt medicine.

― The last of the famous international Greyjoys (Nicole), Monday, 15 April 2013 19:02 (1 month ago) Permalink

From Andrew Goldman’s interview with Temple Grandin in the Sunday Times:

In your new book, “The Autistic Brain,” you seriously entertain possible links between vaccines and autism in children, links that scientists have vehemently dismissed.

Well, there’s only one vaccine that could possibly be a problem, and that’s the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine. Now that they’ve changed the vaccine, it has fewer antigens, and that would make it a lot safer. But with the old version of the vaccine, I have not yet come across a study that looked at regressives — when a child had some speech but lost it.

There has been a highly emotional battle between mothers of autistic children and the scientists who dispute their theories.

I have talked to maybe five or six of those mothers, and that’s the reason I don’t pooh-pooh it. Those mothers have all described the same things. They all have the vaccine, and then they talk about fevers and the weird wailing that started in just a few days. When I brought this up to an expert and asked, “Have you ever studied the regressive group separately?” I got silence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/magazine/temple-grandin-on-autism-death-celibacy-and-cows.html?_r=0

― Allen (etaeoe), Monday, 15 April 2013 19:03 (1 month ago) Permalink

bracing self for when I run across one of these people IRL, only a matter of time probably

― not feeling those lighters (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 15 April 2013 19:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

according to wiki, the regressive group has indeed been studies separately, in relation to MMR:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_autism#Causation_controversy

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Monday, 15 April 2013 19:16 (1 month ago) Permalink

if you have a really high IQ you don't have to do your research

― Dr. Adorbius (mh), Monday, 15 April 2013 20:19 (1 month ago) Permalink

I was concerned about the MMR Vaccine back then and paid for single vaccinations at a private clinic and it wasn't cheap. My son had classic autism/onset tourette's syndrome anyways so fuck it. When it came to time for his booster i told my doc to give him the MMR already!
I think that Times journalist is trying to feed his own lazy agenda to Temple but also maybe she is being political with her readership. I would be happier if she didn't mind alienating a massively wrong type of mindset like this. I still love her, she is a marvel.

― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 15 April 2013 21:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

tbf, I think it is really, really hard for parents to face this situation, considering that we're so far from any explanation and still semi in the dark about treatment, and that's why you see even highly intelligent people grasping for an explanation such as this one.

― --808 542137 (Hurting 2), Monday, 15 April 2013 22:05 (1 month ago) Permalink

In my opinion it is detrimental to your children if you are not focused on the goal of them achieving independence rather than what caused them to be on the autism spectrum. Often the answer lies closer to home. This is just my opinion, but I do believe it very strongly.

― Damo Suzuki's Parrot, Monday, 15 April 2013 22:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

"Vaccine injury? Did the needle break off in his arm?"

I hate to admit this made me laugh. I have to remember thatone.

― It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Tuesday, 16 April 2013 04:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

I have conversations like that with my patients at least a few times a week. It's often easier to play dumb and not argue with them ("oh OK, wow, that's too bad" etc). "Did the needle break off" is straight up trolling, and well done, but I wouldn't recommend being so condescending (tempting though it can be).

Hurting, I think you're right about the psychology of "there must be an answer". I had some similar thoughts at great length way upthread.

DSP, I think you're exactly right about the value of approaching a chronic condition with the goal of by working toward improving it (I'd add a caveat of having reasonable expectations) instead of spending time and energy on the unanswerable questions of "what happened" or "why me (why him)". The patients I've seen with that habit of mind are the ones who've done best at coping with chronic illness or other challenges over the long haul, not in the sense that their attitude has made the problem disappear but that they're able to do more despite it, and feel better about the situation. I would guess your mentality will go a long way to help your son grow into independence no matter what his diagnosis.

Like you, I'm no fan of Grandin's answers about the MMR but I'm a fan of hers just the same.

― Plasmon, Tuesday, 16 April 2013 05:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2013/04/28/the-likelihood-of-a-measles-epidemic-in-london-spot-the-difference/

― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 29 April 2013 02:08 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 20 May 2013 10:27 (3 days ago) Permalink

RAGE

― ✌_✌ (c sharp major), Monday, 20 May 2013 10:36 (3 days ago) Permalink

OH FFS

― emil.y, Monday, 20 May 2013 10:50 (3 days ago) Permalink

not but what a class action lawsuit against wakefield (not the nhs, just wakefield) would be sort of satisfying to watch

― ✌_✌ (c sharp major), Monday, 20 May 2013 13:03 (3 days ago) Permalink