Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

it doesn't prove anything at all really

countdown to conservative media saying things like "gushing blood," "drenched in blood," "bleeding profusely"

head wounds bleed a lot, duh

Do "nothing" and "not anything at all" mean different things or

well you said it proves nothing EXCEPT...

which is a way of saying it does prove something, yes?

but I don't think it proves anything at all.

you can tell that the blood is already clotting, meaning there wasn't that much bleeding. in the absense of coexisting bruising on the face, neck, or the site of the bleeding there's not much proven here imho; it is also possible that a superficial wound might have been self inflicted to bolster a self-defense claim, but that wouldn't be my first conclusion

all it proves is that he lost about a tablespoon of blood

yeah head wounds are in general way more horrifying to look at than they are actually ~bad~

all it proves is that he lost about a tablespoon of blood

pretty much. from what is not established by the photo.

maybe he fell down from the recoil and hit his head on the sidewalk

or maybe he just fell down cause trayvon rushed him and he took some clumsy steps backwards

not really a theories i endorse but ones that have passed through my mind

wonder if they ever checked under trayvon's fingernails for george's DNA, or if they dusted george's head for fingerprints

they didn't do anything

"wonder if they dusted george's head for fingerprints" is a tempting display name

ABC says he asked a neighbor to take the photo and the info they showed was that it was taken about three minutes after the gunshots heard on 911. Whatever else it might imply, it shows that something had happenned to GZ and it would be consistent w/his assertion that Trayvon was pounding his head against the sidewalk. I kind of agree w/Cosby's assertion that none of this would have happened had Zimmerman not had a gun.

it's consistent with his statement, yes, but does not necessarily corroborate it

of course a single photo proves nothing. but it does support his story more than contradict it. it's at least consistent with the idea that he was attacked and pushed down. which is bad for the prosecution. of course, it still seems obvious that zimmerman provoked the confrontation and then used it as an excuse to murder trayvon martin.

lot of coursing going on there...

"used it as an excuse"?

Yeah, you can't pick a fight and then claim self defense.

depends what you mean by "pick a fight"

How about, following and confronting a guy walking innocently through your neighborhood?

Has Zimmerman or anyone ever said exactly why he was following him?

iirc the 911 call has him mentioning a pattern of break-ins in the neighborhood, and that martin was 'walking and looking around' and 'acting suspicious.' not verbatim but something like that.

he was 'acting really crazy'

(ie "being black")

acting suspicious = running away from law enforcement super george

How about, following and confronting a guy walking innocently through your neighborhood?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, April 20, 2012 8:31 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think you can follow and confront someone and still maintain the potential for self-defense.

trial's gonna hinge on that

yup

thrid

"used it as an excuse"?

was being more than a little prejudicial there, i admit

ABC says he asked a neighbor to take the photo and the info they showed was that it was taken about three minutes after the gunshots heard on 911.

ok this sounds pretty rational for GZ to have done in retrospect, but it's also insane. THREE minutes after he shoots someone, he asks a neighbor to take a picture of his head? at that exact point in time, how the hell is he acting like he needs to secure evidence to get him off the hook? there's a dead body on the ground and he treats it like a minor car accident. it seems off to me.

have to admit that if i shot somebody, the possible consequences would loom large in my mind from like second one

<I>at that exact point in time, how the hell is he acting like he needs to secure evidence to get him off the hook?</I>

Well, that's because he's just shot someone. And has probably seen enough TV about this situation to think "catalogue the evidence"

xp yeah

And if it's literally three minutes later, I wonder if the photographer witnessed some of the altercation before the gunshot?

Plus the guy was there taking photos

of course a single photo proves nothing. but it does support his story more than contradict it. it's at least consistent with the idea that he was attacked and pushed down.

Pushed down, yes. Attacked is a step too far. Again, he could have been pushed down as a result of Martin defending himself.

sure, but i was just saying "consistent with", not "provides support for"

definitely doesn't exonerate zimmerman

And if it's literally three minutes later, I wonder if the photographer witnessed some of the altercation before the gunshot?

this too. i thought all the neighbors were hiding indoors?

have to admit that if i shot somebody, the possible consequences would loom large in my mind from like second one

it just seems entirely implausible that, that quickly after it all happened, GZ was in a lucid enough state to think about getting the back of his head photo'd. i don't think most people would be able to even make that sort of connection (i'm in trouble --> need evidence --> back of head is bloody --> let's take a picture) so quickly afterward especially when there's a dead body on the ground right there. and especially when supposedly dealing with serious head trauma. it just smells bullshitty to me

So you guys have a lot of experience killing, huh?

no but i majored in it

worth remembering that prosecution knew of this picture before they brought the charges they did

i.e. they've accounted for this evidence that seems consistent with Zimmerman's potentially-exonerating story

"So you guys have a lot of experience killing, huh?"

No, but I've seen Blood Simple.

^ good movie

lol TWU

I imagine any self-appointed neighborhood watch dude who carries a gun and follows potential neer-do-wells would maintain the presence of mind to take a picture of his own bloody head post-shooting. ZImmerman staying out of this powder-keg investigation by proxy for as long as he did seems to have worked to his advantage, since no one knows what happened better than he does, and there's a certain smug confidence to his appearances this far. Apparently the prosecutors were taken by surprise at the hearing by requests for evidence justifying the charge, and couldn't offer anything more than what's already in the public record, which does bode well for their team. Wouldn't be surprised if this got messy (messier) fast, especially as it inches toward the distinct possibility of exoneration.

it just seems entirely implausible that, that quickly after it all happened, GZ was in a lucid enough state to think about getting the back of his head photo'd. i don't think most people would be able to even make that sort of connection (i'm in trouble --> need evidence --> back of head is bloody --> let's take a picture) so quickly afterward especially when there's a dead body on the ground right there. and especially when supposedly dealing with serious head trauma. it just smells bullshitty to me

i think when you kill somebody time slows down. so 3 minutes is more like 6 minutes.

awesome, next time i'm late for work i'm gonna kill like fifteen people

I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I thought he was a little bit younger than I was, and I did not know if he was armed or not.

Sincerely, william carlos psychopath.