Hard to categorize rock/jazz/'experimental' but not really fusion crossover records by jazz dudes

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love that doc severinson/king crimson arrangement. feels like it should be repurposed for the next tarantino movie.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 20 April 2012 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

There was a book, What Was The First Rock (or maybe Rock & Roll) Record? Reviewer said authors picked mid-40s Lionel Hampton rec, forget title.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow thanks for all these fantastic recommendations scott

Brakhage, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

... and everybody else as well, great stuff

Brakhage, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Scott that Blaine record is amazing. Srsly you are a true resource on this board.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ concurrence. Never would have known there was a "Stan Getz + sci-fi SFX" LP. Thanks to llurk's links, too. I listened to every one of these, great afternoon.

Advanced Uncle Meat recovery system (Dan Peterson), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I wanna get Captain Marvel: Getz w Tony Williams, Chick Corea, Lenny White--I've seen a review which mentions a track in which "Stan blows his mind with echo and delay", although he doesn't do that all the way through, and I know Allmusic's Jurek mentions the "tension" of sensibilities adding much charge to the album.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

More on the rock side of things but Joyride's Friendsound record is pretty cool. Paul Revere & the Raiders members and session guys. The record has a stretched out southern california vibe. Lots of flute and really great samples and tape/sound effects. Really love this record. I would def pair it with the Howards recs.
And I'd like to also add that the Seward has turned my ears onto a treasure of new tunes.

sknybrg, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

The live version is way better (can't find it on youtube), but this is one of my favorite Burton/Coryell songs that probably lives up to this thread's title...

The guitar solo on the live version is up there w/Lou Reed on the first VU album. I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more...

dlp9001, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure if Ray Russell and Sharrock would fit in here or if they're too well-known

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

needless to say, gil evans is my not easily categorizable hero. won't clutter up this thread with gil youtubes. but he covered just about every base from a jazz foundation in the 60's and 70's and 80's. and every record he made is worth owning.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean you can say the same about miles. the two people go hand in hand. and gil had a hand on many miles albums even when his name wasn't listed.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

i HAVE to post this here though. so amazing.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

I will be the Gil Clutterer

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

not sure if stuff like this is what you're after, but cheesy jazz/psych records with unusual instrumentation were pretty common back in the day

cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dig this album a bunch. it's definitely fusion, but its got a lot going on. free jazz, psych, prog, etc. vinyl copies don't sell for a ton. vinyl sounds great too. much better than this youtube rip, but what the hell, someone was kind enough to put up the whole album.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

lots of stuff in this thread could also fit along the kozmigroov lines, no?

cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Having a hard time finding clips but I will rep for

Nils Petter Molvær - Khmer
Spring Heel Jack & The Blue Series Continuum - Masses

which are two recent records that are fusionish and that I think are great

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

SELFDESTRUCT IN TEN MINUTES

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

This definitely fits the bill of the thread

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm kinda playing fast and loose with the original thread idea! mentioning stuff i really like. i mean there is eddie harris stuff from the 70's that will make you say WAHT THE??? HELL did he just do? in the best way.

i'm trying to remember which john surman album i got that was so not free jazz or whatever. more like krautrock. awesome record. his pal terje made records like that. and then yeah you get into ECM territory. but there is great territory to explore in ECM world!

oh and speaking of Terje, that Esoteric Circle album is a fave of mine. early fusion. of the nordic persuasion.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was just gonna post that john surman stu martin thing! weird. mostly for that awesome death metal intro. on a synth or oscillator or whatever it is. that record sells for peanuts and its so good. a lot of john surman records do. and barre philips records. etc. jukka records. i love jukka.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

This was one of the very first group young guys making jazz with some kind of alleged rock connection I heard about, maybe even before Burton. Not quite the cover I remember seeing, but the closest I'm finding. Jeremy's Dad was William Steig, who maybe did this cover. Anybody heard it? Jeremy played electric flute, I think, like the guy in Blues Project, which I was def into (Danny Kalb was kind of a speedy ancestor of Verlaine and Lloyd, in the Bloomfield Newport/Highway 61 vein, but more often than Bloomfield) Anyway, here's Jeremy

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like his records. i don't love him though. i'm definitely a william steig fan though.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sure looks like William did it, now that I can see more detail.

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is my favorite jeremy cover actually

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

he had a lot of good covers

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow! Never saw most of those. Should also mention Hal Willner's gathering of various tribes in the 80s, esp for various wild takes on Weill,via Lost In The Stars (and later September Songs. Stay Awake was more uneven, but Sun Ra and Tom Waits had no prob with those Disney songs. Willner also produced the TV series Night Music; no doubt some of it's been on YouTube. Miles, Maria McKee, gee, you never knew who'd show up for the party. Al Green looked totally disgusted by Sun Ra's Arkestra, and just went BANG! BANG! BANG! on his cowbell (Syd Straw laughing wildly, her glasses rolling around). But when I played the audiotape back, he fit perfectly--sorry bout that Al! Mind you, having Charlie Haden behind Nick Cave's portentous ass on "The Mercy Seat" was so wrong--although Charlie looked amused, fortunately. But Sonny Rollins with Leonard Cohen fuckin' ruled Also pertaining to this thread:

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, here's Sonny on Night Music w L.Cohen: "Who By Fire"

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

> Hard to categorize ...

Orchester Gustav Brom - präludium
from 'Missa Jazz' on MPS

meisenfek, Saturday, 21 April 2012 07:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

> Bill Plummer & Cosmic Brotherhood

love the cover: barefooted man in suit

meisenfek, Saturday, 21 April 2012 08:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is Ayler just too obvious for y'all?

Three Word Username, Saturday, 21 April 2012 09:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Never got round to New Grass but from that track its still too much in that obvious 'free' manner.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

On further reflection tho' I love the thread concept - never spent too long w/fusion but like how this is stated in a way that allows for fusion-y and free-ish stuff to co-exist...so need to investigate some of the tracks a bit more.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

xyzzz, did you make it past the first 30 seconds?

Three Word Username, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, the sung part and then funk-type backing aren't given much space by Ayler

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 21 April 2012 10:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, like that Moon Man record i mentioned by Charles Lloyd is perfect for this thread. respected young post-bop jazz sax player makes completely bonkers...uh...rock? record.

but then i kinda cheated by posting something like that Friends album which is John Abercrombie and other young weirdos. It is a mix of things, but its not like the people who made it were well-known for doing other things first. they were young.

i like anomalies in people's catalogs.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

speaking of early hybrids, john abercrombie was a part of stark reality. 1969. rock/funk/jazz/everything music.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

All of this really goes to further illustrate how deep the jazz well goes. You can get to know some rock or some punk but there is just a planet load of crazy jazz that was cut in the age of the LP.

Part of it is alot of this stuff never came back in the CD age, so large swaths of it are probably not easy to find.

Someone unscrupulous or someone beneficent should put together some box sets of this kind of thing.

earlnash, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is hard to categorize - like gil evans meets ez listening and 70s tv commercial soundtracks? also includes orchestrated take on "birds of fire"

demolition with discretion (m coleman), Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

haaha

demolition with discretion (m coleman), Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Are we going for jazz ventures into rock cos there are several covers of things by Coltrane etc by people from the rock side of things.
Like The Corporation doing India & Mighty Baby doing the same song which is also the basis of Eight Miles High by The Byrds + covered by East Of Eden.

There is a major jazz influence in the improvisation of the San Francisco bands from the BAllroom scene. I've always heard it as jazz into rock, way before the formation of jazzrock. Also 13th Floor Elevators' Easter Everywhere's instrumental interplay always reminds me of smallgroup jazz stuff but played on electric instruments.
Ten Years After sound like they take as much from bebop as the blues on their first couple of lps, not sure if that influence fades much after they became better recognised after Woodstock.

Have to bung in the Gun Club's garage version of A Love Supreme somewhere in this thread. You can get it on that misleadingly titled Death Party live set the one out on the French record label. Think it's a line-up featuring Patricia Morrison and Ward Dotson.

Also want to bring up Love, Devotion, Surrender the SAntana/Mclaughlin lp. There are various live sets from a tour supporting that lp too that are worth seeking out.
Is Santana between III and Lotus too close to actual fusion cos it tends to be pretty great Latinate Bitches Brewisms

Plus Mclaughlin's 2nd solo lp Devotion is pretty great. Hendrixy material though I'm not sure which release has the best sound. I remember reading an Alan Douglas Wire interview where he talks about the master tapes having to be reconstructed after some accident. & that he had pioneered the technique he later sued on the controversial Hendrix releases on reconstruction but I've never been able to find any further details on that. Always wondered if anybody else had heard anything along those lines and could elucidate.

Stevolende, Saturday, 21 April 2012 12:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

To me, there's rock appeal in Ayler's tracks w electric violinist Michael Sampson, esp when they're stess-testing traditional American musical materials, and themselves--check for inst that box set sampler from several years back. In terms of xpost catalog anomalies, this is also a fine example--not that jazz doesn't have a still-developing tradition of interacting with country music, but most unusual for a hard-bop visionary, esp in 1957, way out in front of bass and drums and nothing else--don't fence him in!

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 18:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Good thinking on that Rollins LP! Would never have thought of that one

Brakhage, Sunday, 22 April 2012 18:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, something we were talking about on the recent thread re Lou Reed's The Bells: Don Cherry's on that album, ditto Between Thought And Expression. Also, Ornette's on The Raven, and seven takes of "Guilty," accompanied by a dif instrument or part on each http://www.loureed.com/guilty/

dow, Monday, 23 April 2012 00:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

On the other hand, I think jazz has had a very strong and underacknowledged influence on country music via western swing, guitarists like Chet Atkins, etc.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think it goes both ways and it sometimes seems like neither side wants to acknowledge the other.

FP Sorrow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ornette Coleman played w the Dead too; not seeing that, but here's Garcia w Coleman & Prime Time:

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

^ sounds like a timbaland beat

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 April 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure what to really categorize this stuff as, but Danny Gatton (guitar) and Buddy Emmons (pedal steel) did some pretty cool stuff as the Redneck Jazz Explosion:

Good footage (kinda crazy watching Gatton's hands)

Softspot for this one too, though almost loungey at times:

grandavis, Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

speaking of paul winter, this belongs here too

scott seward, Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah, I forgot they did that w Elvin, talk about an extended range! Brave Oregon pioneers. Before I forget, Robert Randolph has been known to chase Trane on pedal steel, and he's once again on an Experience Hendrix tour. Turtle Island String Quartet has also covered Hendrix well, ditto Coltrane, a whole album of his songs, and ones he covered/ They've got that barefoot sound. And also before I forget, always liked this--Pavement transmuted, inspiration no longer seemingly offhanded, still cool

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink


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