Hard to categorize rock/jazz/'experimental' but not really fusion crossover records by jazz dudes

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llurk, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

that hal blaine album is so good. mostly because its NOT a long string of "psychedelic" covers. its a genuine album and genuinely strange.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

70's doc severinson albums are ALL worthwhile. lots of great funky/disco/r&b moments.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like don ellis's 70's records too. you could make a good trippy comp of the mellow moments from albums like Haiku.

then there are always paul horn's early proto-new age efforts in temple desecration.

and john klemmer kinda wins the acid jazz prize.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I guess I'm kind of crossing two different phenomena in my mind, maybe would have been better as separate threads but w/e, one being the trend-hopping trad guys with forgotten psych albums and stuff like that, and the other being just genuinely hard to categorize stuff like the Roberts albums. But it still blows my mind that fucking Woody Herman did an album called "Heavy Exposure."

I wonder if Charlie Parker would have wound up doing stuff like this if he had lived.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Lionel Hampton released an electro single in the 1980s, so I guess everything's possible...

Tuomas, Friday, 20 April 2012 14:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like lionel's lite funky stuff from the 70's. this is a nice spacey jam:

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

oldheads bringing the funk

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

this, of course, is the track to beat as far as oldhead funk goes

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

and Herbie Mann was like, the Man

llurk, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

there is nothing hard to categorize about this, but just in case someone hasn't heard it. such a cool track.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

i love this don sebesky album. very groovy. don't know if its on cd.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

am i the only chris hinze fan out there? guess its just fusion. i dig his records. they aren't straight fusion records.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

didn't you write on ILX that your only memory of the 60s was being scared by Maynard? At a family outing, maybe (somebody responded that Maynard was the Yngwie Malmsteen of jazz, sounds right). Lotta stuff on here I need to check. That xpost live Free Spirts set is pretty funny, in a good way. Those guys were so young, just naturally (with a little help from ingested friends) opening their radioheadsz to all the 60s had to offer, and fltering it though extensive self-education in progress. Steve Marcus, a teenager at the time, provdies liner notes, setting the scene at The Scene, one of the earliest groovy rock-the-whatever-clubs. They had a regular gig, and would get trippin' for Happy Hour, chasing a Motown bass line around the room like dreaming beagles. It's recorded on a mic as high as the musos, flimsy and dialing waaay back through the twilight, dig it when you wanna. Also some I guess you'd say acid folk ballads (not sung by Coryell, fortunately). Oh yeah, he and Moses and Steve Swallow were also in Gary Burton Quartet, making more focused, less speedy, but still kinds shrmoomy and barefoot jazz-meets-rock-and-sometimes-country-and-sometimes-folk in the 60s. And Burton's Tennessee Firebird is worth checking out, seems like (I've only found about half the tracks) Coryell's Barefoot Boy, The Real Great Escape, and stuff w his band Eleventh House is erratic but rowdy and fun, often enough (for thrift store prices) He's the sometimes uncredited guitarist on Steve Marcus's The Lord's Prayer and others, course he did get his name on Count's Rock Band, and I think they even did a reunion album, but don't know if that's supposed to be good.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, and Herbie Mann's early 60s "Comin' Home Baby" didn't even need no guests, but otherwise I dig him w Coryell and Sharrock and downhome studio aces on Memphis Underground, w Duane Allman on Push Push, haven't heard him w Mick Taylor.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

"shrmoomy"? Billy Mumy on shrooms? Maybe--it's a goood life to be Lost In Space, Will Robinson!

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wonder what the commercial success of most of these records was like. There sure as hell were a lot of them being made. Like did Lionel Hampton really do significantly better by releasing generic-ish space funk? Was the audience for trad that dead? Somehow I doubt it's what he really wanted to be doing, although maybe he didn't want to be doing trad either.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 April 2012 15:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, you know, it was just modern music. people probably wanted to be modern. or at least try to be. and make money. a lot of trad jazz people made stuff like this but were still reliably normal live for their old trad fans.

scott seward, Friday, 20 April 2012 15:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

love that doc severinson/king crimson arrangement. feels like it should be repurposed for the next tarantino movie.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 20 April 2012 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

There was a book, What Was The First Rock (or maybe Rock & Roll) Record? Reviewer said authors picked mid-40s Lionel Hampton rec, forget title.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 16:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow thanks for all these fantastic recommendations scott

Brakhage, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

... and everybody else as well, great stuff

Brakhage, Friday, 20 April 2012 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Scott that Blaine record is amazing. Srsly you are a true resource on this board.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ concurrence. Never would have known there was a "Stan Getz + sci-fi SFX" LP. Thanks to llurk's links, too. I listened to every one of these, great afternoon.

Advanced Uncle Meat recovery system (Dan Peterson), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I wanna get Captain Marvel: Getz w Tony Williams, Chick Corea, Lenny White--I've seen a review which mentions a track in which "Stan blows his mind with echo and delay", although he doesn't do that all the way through, and I know Allmusic's Jurek mentions the "tension" of sensibilities adding much charge to the album.

dow, Friday, 20 April 2012 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

More on the rock side of things but Joyride's Friendsound record is pretty cool. Paul Revere & the Raiders members and session guys. The record has a stretched out southern california vibe. Lots of flute and really great samples and tape/sound effects. Really love this record. I would def pair it with the Howards recs.
And I'd like to also add that the Seward has turned my ears onto a treasure of new tunes.

sknybrg, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

The live version is way better (can't find it on youtube), but this is one of my favorite Burton/Coryell songs that probably lives up to this thread's title...

The guitar solo on the live version is up there w/Lou Reed on the first VU album. I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more...

dlp9001, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure if Ray Russell and Sharrock would fit in here or if they're too well-known

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

needless to say, gil evans is my not easily categorizable hero. won't clutter up this thread with gil youtubes. but he covered just about every base from a jazz foundation in the 60's and 70's and 80's. and every record he made is worth owning.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean you can say the same about miles. the two people go hand in hand. and gil had a hand on many miles albums even when his name wasn't listed.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

i HAVE to post this here though. so amazing.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

I will be the Gil Clutterer

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

not sure if stuff like this is what you're after, but cheesy jazz/psych records with unusual instrumentation were pretty common back in the day

cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i dig this album a bunch. it's definitely fusion, but its got a lot going on. free jazz, psych, prog, etc. vinyl copies don't sell for a ton. vinyl sounds great too. much better than this youtube rip, but what the hell, someone was kind enough to put up the whole album.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

lots of stuff in this thread could also fit along the kozmigroov lines, no?

cock chirea, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Having a hard time finding clips but I will rep for

Nils Petter Molvær - Khmer
Spring Heel Jack & The Blue Series Continuum - Masses

which are two recent records that are fusionish and that I think are great

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

SELFDESTRUCT IN TEN MINUTES

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

This definitely fits the bill of the thread

Brakhage, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm kinda playing fast and loose with the original thread idea! mentioning stuff i really like. i mean there is eddie harris stuff from the 70's that will make you say WAHT THE??? HELL did he just do? in the best way.

i'm trying to remember which john surman album i got that was so not free jazz or whatever. more like krautrock. awesome record. his pal terje made records like that. and then yeah you get into ECM territory. but there is great territory to explore in ECM world!

oh and speaking of Terje, that Esoteric Circle album is a fave of mine. early fusion. of the nordic persuasion.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was just gonna post that john surman stu martin thing! weird. mostly for that awesome death metal intro. on a synth or oscillator or whatever it is. that record sells for peanuts and its so good. a lot of john surman records do. and barre philips records. etc. jukka records. i love jukka.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

This was one of the very first group young guys making jazz with some kind of alleged rock connection I heard about, maybe even before Burton. Not quite the cover I remember seeing, but the closest I'm finding. Jeremy's Dad was William Steig, who maybe did this cover. Anybody heard it? Jeremy played electric flute, I think, like the guy in Blues Project, which I was def into (Danny Kalb was kind of a speedy ancestor of Verlaine and Lloyd, in the Bloomfield Newport/Highway 61 vein, but more often than Bloomfield) Anyway, here's Jeremy

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like his records. i don't love him though. i'm definitely a william steig fan though.

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sure looks like William did it, now that I can see more detail.

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is my favorite jeremy cover actually

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

he had a lot of good covers

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 01:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

scott seward, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wow! Never saw most of those. Should also mention Hal Willner's gathering of various tribes in the 80s, esp for various wild takes on Weill,via Lost In The Stars (and later September Songs. Stay Awake was more uneven, but Sun Ra and Tom Waits had no prob with those Disney songs. Willner also produced the TV series Night Music; no doubt some of it's been on YouTube. Miles, Maria McKee, gee, you never knew who'd show up for the party. Al Green looked totally disgusted by Sun Ra's Arkestra, and just went BANG! BANG! BANG! on his cowbell (Syd Straw laughing wildly, her glasses rolling around). But when I played the audiotape back, he fit perfectly--sorry bout that Al! Mind you, having Charlie Haden behind Nick Cave's portentous ass on "The Mercy Seat" was so wrong--although Charlie looked amused, fortunately. But Sonny Rollins with Leonard Cohen fuckin' ruled Also pertaining to this thread:

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, here's Sonny on Night Music w L.Cohen: "Who By Fire"

dow, Saturday, 21 April 2012 02:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, something we were talking about on the recent thread re Lou Reed's The Bells: Don Cherry's on that album, ditto Between Thought And Expression. Also, Ornette's on The Raven, and seven takes of "Guilty," accompanied by a dif instrument or part on each http://www.loureed.com/guilty/

dow, Monday, 23 April 2012 00:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

On the other hand, I think jazz has had a very strong and underacknowledged influence on country music via western swing, guitarists like Chet Atkins, etc.

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think it goes both ways and it sometimes seems like neither side wants to acknowledge the other.

FP Sorrow (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 April 2012 16:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Good points - trying to think of 'jazz' LPs (as in, filed in jazz and not western swing) with country steel guitar ... must be some, right? (Sleep-deprived so nothing's coming immediately to mind)

Brakhage, Monday, 23 April 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

There's definitely a Rex Stewart track from the 40s with pedal steel...but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called.

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 23 April 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Greg Leisz has played pedal steel w Bill Frisell quite a bit in the last few years, like in their concert tribute to the endlessly resourceful Speedy West, don't think they've released an album of that yet, ditto (last time I checked) their live soundtrack for The Great Flood, Bill Morrison's film of found newsreel footage (time-scorched nitrate). But check some of Frisell's albums already out--I can't keep up with him!

dow, Monday, 23 April 2012 20:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

Steel player I've seen in New Orleans, Dave Easley:

Advanced Uncle Meat recovery system (Dan Peterson), Monday, 23 April 2012 20:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Now I'm wishing Miles had opted for a steel instead of a sitar, that would have been most excellent

Brakhage, Monday, 23 April 2012 21:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also want to start a 'weird Indian classical' LP thread with the people who do ragas on piano and steel guitar

Brakhage, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

yo, dudes, check this shit out:

scott seward, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

pretty ill and threatening.

Snop Snitchin, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Loving the track titles on that one, must find

Brakhage, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'd never heard that dizzy album until today. man, gotta be one of the funkiest records on Pablo. sounds so great on the hi-fi. i love lalo to pieces. what a genius.

and i've never heard that freddie hubbard thing!

scott seward, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dear god

Brakhage, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

looks like Skot is the only one who ever posted about this but yeah

have become kinda obsessed with this one lately, proto-new age/world/jazz/rock produced by George Martin, sitar (played by their conga guy?!) on 'Ode to a Fillmore Dressing Room' slays me.

llurk, Tuesday, 24 April 2012 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that was kind of at the crossroads of what some called The New Acoustic Music (Grisman called his approach dawg music)and new age--like world music, not quite an established musical/marketing category yet. Oregon's Music Of Another Present Era was another late-night FM fave, along with Icarus--also Codona's stuff, but I think one of their key members got killed on the road. Oregon has gotten back together occasionally.

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

David Murray has recorded at least one album of Grateful Dead songs (wanna say there's two, but can only find Dark Star at the moment). he also recorded with them live, and you can stream it from dead.net, though I don't feel like negotiating with my firewall at the moment--not that I don't trust Grateful Dead Radio, but what if something else is waiting--anyway, I'm told that the Dead weren't quite up to Murray at this point ('93), but here's one with his own Octet:

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

And another

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ornette Coleman played w the Dead too; not seeing that, but here's Garcia w Coleman & Prime Time:

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

^ sounds like a timbaland beat

i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Thursday, 26 April 2012 18:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Not sure what to really categorize this stuff as, but Danny Gatton (guitar) and Buddy Emmons (pedal steel) did some pretty cool stuff as the Redneck Jazz Explosion:

Good footage (kinda crazy watching Gatton's hands)

Softspot for this one too, though almost loungey at times:

grandavis, Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

speaking of paul winter, this belongs here too

scott seward, Thursday, 26 April 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah, I forgot they did that w Elvin, talk about an extended range! Brave Oregon pioneers. Before I forget, Robert Randolph has been known to chase Trane on pedal steel, and he's once again on an Experience Hendrix tour. Turtle Island String Quartet has also covered Hendrix well, ditto Coltrane, a whole album of his songs, and ones he covered/ They've got that barefoot sound. And also before I forget, always liked this--Pavement transmuted, inspiration no longer seemingly offhanded, still cool

dow, Thursday, 26 April 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink


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