HUSKER DU V. Replacements

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i remember evan dando back in melody maker circa shame about ray identifying dinosaur jr as the band that lifted the veil of shame from the 70s hard rock stuff for him and his contempos... lee ranaldo told me something similar, wrt you're living all over me, reclaiming uncool reference points and influences for the post-hardcore age. they ref'd the 70s hard rock stuff with a little less archness than the 'mats, say, rewriting 'cat scratch fever' as a tune about a dude getting a boner.

I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Friday, 20 April 2012 11:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Makes sense. I guess Replacements were actually in the hardcore age, and odd ones out, rather than blazing a new trail after that scene faded.

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the mats' take on hardcore, though, was so much looser than the drill-tight thrash of minor threat or the brawny malevolence of flag - you could hear a lot of, y'know, rock'n'roll within 'sorry ma forget to take out the trash' (which is a wonderful, wonderful album), a looseness and lightness that certainly owes more to, say, the faces than husker du.

I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Course. That's accepted within saying they were odd ones out. Love that old PW line about songwriting - he would only play things with melody, Bob would only play things that rocked. Hence the sound.

Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

the mats' take on hardcore, though, was so much looser than the drill-tight thrash of minor threat or the brawny malevolence of flag

That's one place in Mould's book where he does single out Grant for praise - he refers to Minor Threat and similar hardcore bands as "oom-pah hardcore" because of their fast polka-like drumbeats, and compliments Hart for being able to give the Huskers some variety and swing.

i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

hells yeah... 'land speed record' is like an album full of cro-magnon two-chord riffs sent skyward by grant's crazed dervish drumming and bob's speed-fuelled soloing.

i guess the thing about the mats, re: hardcore, is it was always obvious from even their earliest days that pw could write, y'know, actual songs. you wouldn't necessarily think, listening to 'land speed', that bob would end up writing stuff like 'if i can't change your mind'

I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Friday, 20 April 2012 12:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

i figured Tarfumes was tweaking my nose cuz grant/greg brain spaz

I was indeed. fwiw, not only can I hear Greg's bass playing loud and clear, but it's always impressive.

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 20 April 2012 13:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

The bass is hard to hear, especially on the later records. There are some demos out there from Candy Apple Grey where Greg's playing pokes out through the fabric more, only highlighting how much the hiss and treble got raised later on in the mixing.

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Weird, because CAG might be one of my favorite two albums by them.

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 13:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Been reading more of Bob Mould's book, and it's hard for me to come away with any other impression than he consistently underplays others' contributions to his success, and overstates his own. It's kind of gross to read, and frankly, I'm surprised a writer as even-handed as Azzerad went along with putting his name on this book as co-author.

Poliopolice, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

TS: Mould getting haughty over slide-guitar part on "Heaven Hill" vs Westerberg giving Bob a bottle of champagne and saying "Drink this or you're out of the band."

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Basically this is:

TS: Character assessments based on systematic patterns of behavior vs. Character assessments based on specific incidents

Poliopolice, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Both can tell you interesting things, surely... but that Westerburg incident was 25 years ago, when they were in their 20s. Mould is much older and I would think wiser now, and he's consistently writing like a smug, self-aggrandizing tool.

Poliopolice, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

To be honest, I'd have them both over for dinner.

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe grant norton could cook for us.

pplains, Friday, 20 April 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was wondering, wrt to the discussion upthread about the late 80s shift away from hardcore to that 70s sound, whether the Replacements might in some way be progenitors of that. Not that they ever sounded like Sabbath. But they certainly had no shame in liking and playing 70s hard rock and classic rock in an era when it was distinctly unfashionable in the underground. Must have been noted by other alternative scene musicians.

― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Friday, April 20, 2012 3:49 AM (9 hours ago)

i remember evan dando back in melody maker circa shame about ray identifying dinosaur jr as the band that lifted the veil of shame from the 70s hard rock stuff for him and his contempos... lee ranaldo told me something similar, wrt you're living all over me, reclaiming uncool reference points and influences for the post-hardcore age. they ref'd the 70s hard rock stuff with a little less archness than the 'mats, say, rewriting 'cat scratch fever' as a tune about a dude getting a boner.

― I accidentally sonned your dome (stevie), Friday, April 20, 2012 4:51 AM (8 hours ago)

Not to quibble w the 'dos, but it seems to me that the reclamation of the 70s was well underway when Dinosaur (pre-Jr.) got started. For me, the Replacements were the first of the "cool bands" my MR&R-reading cool friends dug that I could really get into, and I think it probably had a lot to do with the fact that they often sounded like the pop and classic rock I'd grown up with. They may have been mixing rock with hardcore from the beginning, but they didn't really open up and admit their classic rock influences and yearnings until Hootenanny in 83. That same year, the Butthole Surfers combined post-hardcore noise, chaos and satire with loud-and-clear 70s metal and psychedelic rock influences on their debut. Both great records that turned a lot of ears.

Black Flag & SST followed and started unironically worshipping the Sabbath skull-head doom bong in 84 on side two of My War and the Saint Vitus debut. Same year saw Meat Puppets II and, so it was pretty clear by that point that classic rock and American post-hardcore were gonna get along just fine. Dinosaur's debut finally came out in 85, and the Flaming Lips dropped the sonically & thematically similar Hear It Is less than a year later. All of these albums and bands got a lot of positive scene and press attention at the time, so it's hard to pick any one as ground zero. If I had to point my finger at anyone, it would probably be Redd Kross (another acknowledged influence on Sonic Youth).

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ was gonna say that about Black Flag myself

heavy is the head that eats the crayons (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 20 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

And of course the Minutemen were covering Van Halen, Steely Dan and CCR on Double Nickels in '84 too.

Friends of Mr Caeiro (NickB), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, good point. green river's come on down = another c.84 doom-dirge 70s metal album that was made by and marketed to punk peoples (with little success, irrc).

lol, 84 was the year the 70s broke.

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wasn't Blue Oyster Cult D. Boon's favorite band?

Poliopolice, Friday, 20 April 2012 22:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Minutemen cover choices did more to predict/determine what my tastes would later evolve into than I care to admit...

aluminum rivets must not be proud of their plastic bosses (Jon Lewis), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost i thot watt was the cultist

aluminum rivets must not be proud of their plastic bosses (Jon Lewis), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe both. i though d. boon took his name from e. bloom.

Poliopolice, Friday, 20 April 2012 22:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Minutemen cover choices did more to predict/determine what my tastes would later evolve into than I care to admit...

me too. first place i ever heard "the red and the black" f'rinstance.

thx guys

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: all that history junk i posted upthread, i do understand how dino's 70s revivalism might have been or seemed especially influential on punk people and scenes in the NY/PA/MA/CT/NH area.

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

like minutemen, flag, meat pups, red kross and the surfers were all west coast, 'mats and lips were midwestern. dinos were some of the first northeastern ex-hardcore types to really go that way.

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

uh, if arizona = "west coast"

you know

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 22:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

or y'know, texas

bear, bear, bear, Friday, 20 April 2012 23:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

wow this 85 full huskers show youtube posted upthread is solidfying my already pro-huskers opinion

l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 20 April 2012 23:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Makes sense.

No--makes no sense at all. (I didn't scroll back far enough to see what made sense--just couldn't pass that up.)

clemenza, Friday, 20 April 2012 23:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

or y'know, texas

lol, yeah. i get caught up in the typing and forget to thimk. add a seperate category for "southwest" i guess...

It occurs to me that this was "MY MUSIC", the post-hardcore 70's revival moment. This is the sound that introduced me to a world larger than the radio, MTV and my friends' & parents' record collections. I loved all the bands & albums mentioned up above, along with associated & similar stuff like Camper Van Beethoven, Violent Femmes, The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Pixies, Pussy Galore, Halo of Flies and Mudhoney. All of it seemed like punk to me, or like a version of punk I could relate to and make my own. As embarrassed as I am to admit it, I saw this music an "artful" version of punk, one "liberated" from the tiresome loud-fast orthodoxy and polemical simplicity I associated with 77 punkrock and American hardcore. It fit together in my head with the Nuggets & Back From the Grave comps; with The Stooges, Dolls & Ramones; freakazoid outliers like Chrome & F/i; and Aussie shit like The Saints, Scientists & Radio Birdman.

What seems strange now is simply the fact that this music seemed so radically adventurous and forward-thinking to me at the time. It's clear in retrospect that it was simply an attempt to forge a connection between punk rock, itself already becoming dated, and what punk had supposedly replaced. I flirted with more genuinely futuristic stuff like Skinny Puppy, Sonic Youth (and their Blast First sistren) and weird new trends in club music. I liked a lot of fairly straightforward punk-punk like Naked Raygun, Squirrel Bait, the Didjits and Husker Du, spent time with the thrash, speed and crossover metal my sketchier friends dug, but crit-approved revivalist rock-as-punk was MY SHIT. I wasn't inclined to follow Big Black into the Wax Trax scene, Foetus & Skinny Puppy into industrial goth, Voivod into death metal, or MARRS into house. Instead, I followed the children of Redd Kross into indie rock. GBV here we come...

No regrets, but there's something kind of funny about my naivete when I look back on it now. I was so certain that this was THEE MUSIC OV THEE FUTURE!

yuppie bullshit chocolate blogbait (contenderizer), Friday, 20 April 2012 23:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Arizona's Pacific Time for eight months a year anyway.

pplains, Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

It occurs to me that this was "MY MUSIC", the post-hardcore 70's revival moment.

Me too, for real. Well, that, twinned with UK 'modern rock' (Echo, New Order, solo Robyn H, etc). Those were the left and right shoes of 14 y.o. me walking into THEE_FUTURE

aluminum rivets must not be proud of their plastic bosses (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 21 April 2012 00:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thread revival inspired a little "Makes No Sense at all" analysis:

http://thisiheard.blogspot.com

timellison, Monday, 23 April 2012 00:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's really cool tim, i've played in bands for forever but i never learned any theory or how to read music, i really regret that. love reading stuff like that though.

l0u1s j0rdan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 23 April 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

Can anyone recommend a Replacements CDR80?

Sandy Borehole (S-), Tuesday, 28 August 2012 07:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know for sure, but I bet "Hootenany," "Let It Be" and "Tim" total not much more than 80 minutes.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 13:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'd say that would be a pretty good primer, particularly the latter two-- though Hootenany kinds of captures the spirit of the band better than the second two

Poliopolice, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 14:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Wikipedia includes running times, so here are my personal favourites:

"Johnny's Gonna Die" (3:32)
"Kids Don't Follow" (2:50)
"Go" (2.29)
"Color Me Impressed" (2:25)
"Within Your Reach" (4:24)
"Hayday" (2:06)
"I Will Dare" (3:18)
"Favorite Thing" (2:19)
"Unsatisfied" (4:01)
"Answering Machine" (3:40)
"Bastards of Young" (3:35)
"Left of the Dial" (3:41)
"Alex Chilton" (3:12)
"Can't Hardly Wait" (3:02)
"I'll Be You" (3:27)
"Rock 'n' Roll Ghost" (3:23)
"Pool & Dive" (2:07)

That'd get you to around 53 minutes. I've left out songs that most everyone else loves--never cared for either their overly jokey side, or their loungey stuff--so maybe so one else can fill out the rest.

clemenza, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 14:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

"someone else"

clemenza, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 14:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Clemenza left off "Swinging Party", "Waitress in the Sky", "Skyway", "Little Mascara", "Tommy Gets His Tonsils Out", "Kill Me on the Bus", "Talent Show," "Anywhere's Better than Here,"... godddammit, there's a lot of shit missing

Poliopolice, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Kill Me on the Bus"... jesus, I've been taking public transit too long.

Poliopolice, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 15:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Honestly, that Don't You Know Who I Think I Was? best of from 2006 is a pretty solid introduction.

1. "Takin' a Ride" (from Sorry Ma, Forgot to Take Out the Trash, 1981) 2:23
2. "Shiftless When Idle" (from Sorry Ma, Forgot to Take Out the Trash, 1981) 2:18
3. "Kids Don't Follow" (from The Replacements Stink, 1982) 2:50
4. "Color Me Impressed" (from Hootenanny, 1983) 2:27
5. "Within Your Reach" (from Hootenanny, 1983) 2:27
6. "I Will Dare" (from Let It Be, 1984) 3:19
7. "Answering Machine" (from Let It Be, 1984) 3:40
8. "Unsatisfied" (from Let It Be, 1984) 4:02
9. "Here Comes a Regular" (from Tim, 1985) 4:49
10. "Kiss Me on the Bus" (from Tim, 1985) 2:54
11. "Bastards of Young" (from Tim, 1985) 3:37
12. "Left of the Dial" (from Tim, 1985) 3:43
13. "Alex Chilton" (Westerberg, Tommy Stinson, Chris Mars; from Pleased to Meet Me, 1987) 3:13
14. "Skyway" (from Pleased to Meet Me, 1987) 2:05
15. "Can't Hardly Wait" (from Pleased to Meet Me, 1987) 3:04
16. "Achin' to Be" (from Don't Tell a Soul, 1989) 3:41
17. "I'll Be You" (from Don't Tell a Soul, 1989) 3:29
18. "Merry Go Round" (from All Shook Down, 1990) 3:40
19. "Message to the Boys" 3:27
20. "Pool & Dive" 2:07

EZ Snappin, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 15:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

pplains, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mine closely mirrors that Rhino compilation--I posted about how great I thought it was on a Replacements thread.

clemenza, Tuesday, 28 August 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

Plus yours adds "Johnny's Gonna Die," which isn't on the Rhino comp and which I think is a must-have.

Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 28 August 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just happened to hear the demo of "Answering Machine" and I still can't figure out how the hell he plays it. Is there a tuning chart somewhere? Sounds great as demo as well, though lyrics are still in progress...

dlp9001, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 01:15 (2 years ago) Permalink


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