"I go to BlackPOLL for my holidays,"-- ILM Artist Poll #17 -- The Kinks RESULTS THREAD

The one Kinks show I saw, in 1993, was great. I felt bad for Dave, though; during his solo spot in the middle of the show (whatever his song on Phobia was), the aisles were filled with people rushing off to the bathrooms. The only seriously questionable moment was the extended set-piece of "Aggravation," with a couple of dancers and some pre-taped Ray commentary ("it was 50 years ago this year...that the aggravation started" or something).

Ray's first wife Raisa was Jewish iirc. I referred to that line in "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light" on the nominations thread cuz I've had arguments with another Jew about whether or not it's antisemitic (I am firmly in the NOT camp)

well...it's stupid at least

I don't think so...? it's about feeling insecure, and the different things people feel insecure about, particularly their bodies.

Looking at that chart you think, jeez, all those former Kinks could probably form a band of their own.

And they did: http://kastoffkinks.co.uk/

damn, God's Children is disgusting. I knew Davies is insane but he's usually more subtle.
― gospodin simmel, Thursday, April 19, 2012 6:29 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The weird thing is that it's such a non-sequitir. "We're all God's children, so I hate the welfare state."

It's uncomfortably close to--hell, it's the same as--the bizzaro "logic" of the Christian right.

Either that means that Davies is uncannily perceptive on how a certain layer of the middle class feels about things, or… he is that person. I suspect the truth is kind of in between.

I kind of suspect that Davies doesn't really understand what it means to be a "socialist." For seem it seems a totem of his identification with the working class, but I doubt he's big on nationalized public services and higher taxes.

wait why is god's children anti-welfare state

i think davies is confused about the kind of person he is tbh -- have you ever read X-Ray? he basically sees his life as one detachment after the next.

Yeah, the o_O nature of the lyrics and association with the far xtian right is a good explanation of why I like it + add the most churchy melody of all time, and you have a song that I would be horrified to hear coming out of the mouths of babes at a school that does not teach children about evolution. It's intense!

also i like davies' cod-calypso voice. most of the time.

been listening to this bonnie raitt track recently (calypso arrangement by van dyke parks):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLZVJ-lVmVA

i can see how someone would think this was kind of a minstrel act, although knowing the scope of raitt's career i don't think anyone would seriously level that charge. on some level it's terribly misguided (and her vocal rhythms are off a few times) but i think it works. it helps that it's a song about women's sexual independence.

back to the kinks...

wait why is god's children anti-welfare state

― iatee, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:01 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the whole "they have no right to turn us into machines" echoes a common right-wing criticism of "left-wing social engineering"--also consistent with POV in a lot of other davies songs, no?

that line can be taken different ways tho - turning people into machines is also common language of socialist critiques of capitalism

the whole "they have no right to turn us into machines" echoes a common right-wing criticism of "left-wing social engineering"--also consistent with POV in a lot of other davies songs, no?

it was a soundtrack for this:

Percy (1971) is a British comedy film directed by Ralph Thomas starring Hywel Bennett, Denholm Elliott, Elke Sommer and Britt Ekland.

Edwin (Bennett), an innocent and shy young man, is hit by a nude man falling from a high-rise building while carrying a chandelier. Edwin's penis is mutilated in the accident and has to be amputated; the falling man is killed.

Edwin becomes the recipient of the world's first penis transplant: he receives the very large, uncircumcised penis of the womanizer killed in the same accident. With his new bit of anatomy (which he names "Percy"), Edwin follows the womanizer's footsteps, meeting all his women friends, before settling happily with the donor's mistreated widow.

The film is based on a novel of the same name by Raymond Hitchcock (father of musician Robyn Hitchcock), and is today remembered for its soundtrack by The Kinks. It was followed by a 1974 sequel, Percy's Progress.

wtf at Hitchcock connection

what's your point?

xpost

'turn us into machines' = 'penis transplant'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k0jO2lJ8fQ
looks hilarious?

That's what I thought the song was about at first, honestly. I knew it was from that movie, and I knew the plot of the movie.

maybe. i guess i'd have to see the movie? which i kind of... don't want to do.

Also cf. "20th Century Man" - I think Ray is perhaps distrustful of modern technological society, though I wouldn't equate that with conservative politics.

At the time I first heard it, I had a friend who also was making this movie, so there must have been something in the air
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi4ywfamd3I

You are not required to actually watch that trailer btw, I think the title says it all. But it was pretty funny iirc.

I keep thinking about "Uncle Son" (re: Ray's politics):

Liberals dream of equal rights,
Conservatives live in a world gone by,
Socialists preach of a promised land,
But old uncle son, was an ordinary man.

Bless you uncle son,
They won't forget you, when the revolution comes.

Unionists tell you when to strike,
Generals tell you when to fight,
Preachers tell you wrong from right,
They'll feed you when you're born,
And use you all your life.

deeply cynical all the way around

xp I think "o_O" is the most accurate description of RD's politics.

the idea of there being an "ordinary man" who is somehow completely outside politics is kind of o_O itself. it's a really condescending conceit, like he imagines his "ordinary man" to be some kind of naïf.

haha but the thing is ray davies is kinda a good example of an 'ordinary man who is somehow completely outside politics' who basically is some kind of naif w/ this stuff

^^^

heckuva songwriter, though, right?

it's weird that the first two kinks albums (and contemporaneous singles etc) are full of these optimistic songs (something better beginning, wait til the summer comes along, etc.) and then with "where have all the good times gone" there's this shift to rueful nostalgia that never goes away and just becomes deeper and more cynical.

haha but the thing is ray davies is kinda a good example of an 'ordinary man who is somehow completely outside politics' who basically is some kind of naif w/ this stuff

― iatee, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:27 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's not true, really. he's just embodied a lot of contradictions and swung back and forth. he

heckuva songwriter, though, right?

― tylerw, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:28 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

that's not true, really. he's just embodied a lot of contradictions and swung back and forth

that's like the epitome of your average 'not that political' person when politics comes up!

i like that on village green much of the nostalgia is more of an existential variety: we get old, we are forgotten and forget, it's sad. i wonder if that's why this is their most appealing album to a lot of folks? the sentiments seem relatively benign and universal? well, that, and the awesome songs.

sounds about right. the "village" can stand in for a child's view of the world just as easily as a real place.

Speaking of Nostalgia and Penis Transplants...

http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/hywel_bennett.jpg

39. "The Way Love Used To Be"
Percy OST, 1971
129 Points (6 Votes)

The Track: http://youtu.be/xuGsXGPtBVQ
Pain Teens cover (Houston Represent!): http://youtu.be/ELlKJDOX0b0

sorry for the extra youtube but a really condescending conceit, like he imagines his "ordinary man" to be some kind of naïf.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzjoqpTqSR4

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/JCodling/thekinks.jpg

38. "20th Century Man"
Muswell Hillbillies, 1971
131 Points (7 Votes)

The Track: http://youtu.be/mrmQB38aT5U
"One From The Road" version: http://youtu.be/Z-usL5eBrdg
Ray solo on "Austin City Limits": http://youtu.be/XD14kdgQEe8

otm. again, these are largely awesome songs (to one degree or another) but there's definitely a way that davies's admirable empathy for the "common man" can bleed over into condescension.

xpost

haha eerily appropriate!

lol at the eternal sunshine video for the way love used to be. man, that song is gorgeous, forgot about it for the poll. no one tell me it's about the welfare state!

I guess I should listen to the entirety of Percy then eh

percy is great, i even dig the "filler" instrumentals.

Also cf. "20th Century Man" - I think Ray is perhaps distrustful of modern technological society, though I wouldn't equate that with conservative politics.

The technology part, no. This part, yeah, pretty much:

I was born in a welfare state
Ruled by bureaucracy
Controlled by civil servants
And people dressed in grey
Got no privacy, got no liberty
Cos the twentieth century people
Took it all away from me.

their -- both ray and dave -- tonedeafness about women is also not particularly agl (love me til the sun shines, for another example in addition to juke box music)
but whatever -- i have managed to not care about that much because i like the songs a lot

Little Miss Queen of Darkness is a notable exception though.

It's funny, fucked as those lines are, they're the most beautiful part of that song for me. In the 80s, though, they had an annoying habit of not playing huge parts of their older songs: they'd play "20th Century Man" without that bridge, and "Sleepwalker" was three verses and out, no bridge, no breakdown.

xp

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3288/3386311386_2118f79117_z.jpg

37. "Dedicated Follower of Fashion"
Non-LP Single/The Kinks' Greatest Hits, 1966
137 Points (7 Votes)

The Track: http://youtu.be/KXaO3zgaf5Q
Live on TV in '73: http://youtu.be/xXpkt6revK0

Ray's first wife Raisa was Jewish iirc. I referred to that line in "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light" on the nominations thread cuz I've had arguments with another Jew about whether or not it's antisemitic (I am firmly in the NOT camp)

Was she? Not sure about that. Lithuanian certainly. What about Ray's comedy Jewish accent (obv. a dig at Larry Page) on "Top of the Pops" - "And now you can make some rrrreal money"

xps

Not defending RD's entire worldview, but I'm not sure complaints about the dour, prying bureaucracy of the welfare state are entirely off the mark. (And were a staple of '60s New Leftism anyway.)

I may be reading those lines through a present-day lens.