"I go to BlackPOLL for my holidays,"-- ILM Artist Poll #17 -- The Kinks RESULTS THREAD

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his tin ear for causing offence (cf the Apeman voice)

I don't see why the Apeman voice is offensive - the song is pretty clearly not mocking islanders or whatever - it's clearly sung from the perspective of a liberal, middle-class educated person.

o. nate, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mark G, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

The one Kinks show I saw, in 1993, was great. I felt bad for Dave, though; during his solo spot in the middle of the show (whatever his song on Phobia was), the aisles were filled with people rushing off to the bathrooms. The only seriously questionable moment was the extended set-piece of "Aggravation," with a couple of dancers and some pre-taped Ray commentary ("it was 50 years ago this year...that the aggravation started" or something).

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ray's first wife Raisa was Jewish iirc. I referred to that line in "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light" on the nominations thread cuz I've had arguments with another Jew about whether or not it's antisemitic (I am firmly in the NOT camp)

well...it's stupid at least

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think so...? it's about feeling insecure, and the different things people feel insecure about, particularly their bodies.

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Looking at that chart you think, jeez, all those former Kinks could probably form a band of their own.

And they did: http://kastoffkinks.co.uk/

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

damn, God's Children is disgusting. I knew Davies is insane but he's usually more subtle.
― gospodin simmel, Thursday, April 19, 2012 6:29 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The weird thing is that it's such a non-sequitir. "We're all God's children, so I hate the welfare state."

It's uncomfortably close to--hell, it's the same as--the bizzaro "logic" of the Christian right.

Either that means that Davies is uncannily perceptive on how a certain layer of the middle class feels about things, or… he is that person. I suspect the truth is kind of in between.

I kind of suspect that Davies doesn't really understand what it means to be a "socialist." For seem it seems a totem of his identification with the working class, but I doubt he's big on nationalized public services and higher taxes.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait why is god's children anti-welfare state

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think davies is confused about the kind of person he is tbh -- have you ever read X-Ray? he basically sees his life as one detachment after the next.

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the o_O nature of the lyrics and association with the far xtian right is a good explanation of why I like it + add the most churchy melody of all time, and you have a song that I would be horrified to hear coming out of the mouths of babes at a school that does not teach children about evolution. It's intense!

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

also i like davies' cod-calypso voice. most of the time.

been listening to this bonnie raitt track recently (calypso arrangement by van dyke parks):

i can see how someone would think this was kind of a minstrel act, although knowing the scope of raitt's career i don't think anyone would seriously level that charge. on some level it's terribly misguided (and her vocal rhythms are off a few times) but i think it works. it helps that it's a song about women's sexual independence.

back to the kinks...

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait why is god's children anti-welfare state

― iatee, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:01 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the whole "they have no right to turn us into machines" echoes a common right-wing criticism of "left-wing social engineering"--also consistent with POV in a lot of other davies songs, no?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

that line can be taken different ways tho - turning people into machines is also common language of socialist critiques of capitalism

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

the whole "they have no right to turn us into machines" echoes a common right-wing criticism of "left-wing social engineering"--also consistent with POV in a lot of other davies songs, no?

it was a soundtrack for this:

Percy (1971) is a British comedy film directed by Ralph Thomas starring Hywel Bennett, Denholm Elliott, Elke Sommer and Britt Ekland.

Edwin (Bennett), an innocent and shy young man, is hit by a nude man falling from a high-rise building while carrying a chandelier. Edwin's penis is mutilated in the accident and has to be amputated; the falling man is killed.

Edwin becomes the recipient of the world's first penis transplant: he receives the very large, uncircumcised penis of the womanizer killed in the same accident. With his new bit of anatomy (which he names "Percy"), Edwin follows the womanizer's footsteps, meeting all his women friends, before settling happily with the donor's mistreated widow.

The film is based on a novel of the same name by Raymond Hitchcock (father of musician Robyn Hitchcock), and is today remembered for its soundtrack by The Kinks. It was followed by a 1974 sequel, Percy's Progress.

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

wtf at Hitchcock connection

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's your point?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

'turn us into machines' = 'penis transplant'

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink


looks hilarious?

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's what I thought the song was about at first, honestly. I knew it was from that movie, and I knew the plot of the movie.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe. i guess i'd have to see the movie? which i kind of... don't want to do.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also cf. "20th Century Man" - I think Ray is perhaps distrustful of modern technological society, though I wouldn't equate that with conservative politics.

o. nate, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

At the time I first heard it, I had a friend who also was making this movie, so there must have been something in the air

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

You are not required to actually watch that trailer btw, I think the title says it all. But it was pretty funny iirc.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I keep thinking about "Uncle Son" (re: Ray's politics):

Liberals dream of equal rights,
Conservatives live in a world gone by,
Socialists preach of a promised land,
But old uncle son, was an ordinary man.

Bless you uncle son,
They won't forget you, when the revolution comes.

Unionists tell you when to strike,
Generals tell you when to fight,
Preachers tell you wrong from right,
They'll feed you when you're born,
And use you all your life.

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

deeply cynical all the way around

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp I think "o_O" is the most accurate description of RD's politics.

And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

the idea of there being an "ordinary man" who is somehow completely outside politics is kind of o_O itself. it's a really condescending conceit, like he imagines his "ordinary man" to be some kind of naïf.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha but the thing is ray davies is kinda a good example of an 'ordinary man who is somehow completely outside politics' who basically is some kind of naif w/ this stuff

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

heckuva songwriter, though, right?

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's weird that the first two kinks albums (and contemporaneous singles etc) are full of these optimistic songs (something better beginning, wait til the summer comes along, etc.) and then with "where have all the good times gone" there's this shift to rueful nostalgia that never goes away and just becomes deeper and more cynical.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha but the thing is ray davies is kinda a good example of an 'ordinary man who is somehow completely outside politics' who basically is some kind of naif w/ this stuff

― iatee, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:27 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's not true, really. he's just embodied a lot of contradictions and swung back and forth. he

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

heckuva songwriter, though, right?

― tylerw, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:28 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's not true, really. he's just embodied a lot of contradictions and swung back and forth

that's like the epitome of your average 'not that political' person when politics comes up!

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like that on village green much of the nostalgia is more of an existential variety: we get old, we are forgotten and forget, it's sad. i wonder if that's why this is their most appealing album to a lot of folks? the sentiments seem relatively benign and universal? well, that, and the awesome songs.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

sounds about right. the "village" can stand in for a child's view of the world just as easily as a real place.

rob, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of Nostalgia and Penis Transplants...

39. "The Way Love Used To Be"
Percy OST, 1971
129 Points (6 Votes)

The Track: http://youtu.be/xuGsXGPtBVQ
Pain Teens cover (Houston Represent!): http://youtu.be/ELlKJDOX0b0

Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

sorry for the extra youtube but a really condescending conceit, like he imagines his "ordinary man" to be some kind of naïf.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

38. "20th Century Man"
Muswell Hillbillies, 1971
131 Points (7 Votes)

The Track: http://youtu.be/mrmQB38aT5U
"One From The Road" version: http://youtu.be/Z-usL5eBrdg
Ray solo on "Austin City Limits": http://youtu.be/XD14kdgQEe8

Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

otm. again, these are largely awesome songs (to one degree or another) but there's definitely a way that davies's admirable empathy for the "common man" can bleed over into condescension.

xpost

haha eerily appropriate!

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol at the eternal sunshine video for the way love used to be. man, that song is gorgeous, forgot about it for the poll. no one tell me it's about the welfare state!

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess I should listen to the entirety of Percy then eh

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

percy is great, i even dig the "filler" instrumentals.

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also cf. "20th Century Man" - I think Ray is perhaps distrustful of modern technological society, though I wouldn't equate that with conservative politics.

The technology part, no. This part, yeah, pretty much:

I was born in a welfare state
Ruled by bureaucracy
Controlled by civil servants
And people dressed in grey
Got no privacy, got no liberty
Cos the twentieth century people
Took it all away from me.

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

their -- both ray and dave -- tonedeafness about women is also not particularly agl (love me til the sun shines, for another example in addition to juke box music)
but whatever -- i have managed to not care about that much because i like the songs a lot

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Little Miss Queen of Darkness is a notable exception though.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's funny, fucked as those lines are, they're the most beautiful part of that song for me. In the 80s, though, they had an annoying habit of not playing huge parts of their older songs: they'd play "20th Century Man" without that bridge, and "Sleepwalker" was three verses and out, no bridge, no breakdown.

xp

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

37. "Dedicated Follower of Fashion"
Non-LP Single/The Kinks' Greatest Hits, 1966
137 Points (7 Votes)

The Track: http://youtu.be/KXaO3zgaf5Q
Live on TV in '73: http://youtu.be/xXpkt6revK0

Raymond Dubious Davies (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ray's first wife Raisa was Jewish iirc. I referred to that line in "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light" on the nominations thread cuz I've had arguments with another Jew about whether or not it's antisemitic (I am firmly in the NOT camp)

Was she? Not sure about that. Lithuanian certainly. What about Ray's comedy Jewish accent (obv. a dig at Larry Page) on "Top of the Pops" - "And now you can make some rrrreal money"

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:14 (2 years ago) Permalink


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