"I go to BlackPOLL for my holidays,"-- ILM Artist Poll #17 -- The Kinks RESULTS THREAD

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A special moment of praise is in order for Bruce Springsteen stemming the tide of zillionaire groupie-groped rock stars complaining about their taxes.

bendy, Thursday, 19 April 2012 13:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of the Boss, check out this awkward interview with Bruce and Ray for the Kinks tribute album a couple years back. I don't think the Boss realizes that it was Ray's estranged brother who came up with the riff.

kornrulez6969, Thursday, 19 April 2012 13:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp but he is a conservative, no?

from a 2008 Rolling Stone article:

Another reason I wanted to move to New Orleans was to escape Tony Blair. I'm a socialist, and Labor is not socialist anymore. The working man is still downtrodden and unheard. And now they're vanishing. Blair came in and it became uncool to be working class. ...when you forget your origins -- that's bad. That's why I don't fit into this culture anymore. I take the side of the underdog.

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 13:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's interesting. No way was he a socialist in the 60s and 70s, grumbling about taxes and trade unions and low-cost housing schemes. I alwyas thought that part of Davies's "I'm not like anybody else" deal was the refusal to sign up to any political platform. I interviewed him once and asked about his politics and he said they were ever-changing and impossible to define so to see him baldly define himself as a socialist is unexpected.

And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Thursday, 19 April 2012 13:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Judging by "Preservation" especially, RD Davies' political thinking was a bit confused in the 70s... or, better still, RD Davies' political thinking was a bit confused in the 70s

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 April 2012 14:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

But, yeah, obviously a small 'c' conservative - not that unusual for someone from his background

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 April 2012 14:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Lots of people were confused in the 70s! That's part of what made it such a marvelous time.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 14:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

The character Ray obv. most identifies with in "Preservation" is the Tramp, which is a bit of a cop out really

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 April 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Crossposted from one of the Sandinista! threads --

Last week while I was thinking about my Kinks ballot, I started hearing "Washington Bullets" in my head set to the music of "Come Dancing." Can't get it out...need a new earworm.

improvised explosive advice (WmC), Thursday, 19 April 2012 14:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ray Davies has a classic case of the Morrisseys: is it possible to mourn the passing of a certain England without sounding a bit racist? Answer: no.

And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

being American, all Kinks songs sound like they're sung in a funny accent to me lol

I pretty much agree with this. I guess I can hear a bit of calypso in the "Apeman" voice if I listen hard, but it doesn't bother me and anyway Ray's voice is always pretty unmistakably his own - he's not exactly Meryl Streep with the accents. If I didn't like British people putting on silly accents that would eliminate a lot of good music, from Exile on Main Street to Lily Allen.

o. nate, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

holy shit @ that socialism quote. who'd have thought?

Kinks were ruined for me in 93 at Glastonbury; still by some distance the worst concert by a major act i've ever seen in my life. makes me queasy just to think of it.
hopefully this thread can bring me back round cause i really did love the hits as a kid.

props for that Quiet Life clip Mark G; best bit of the film.

piscesx, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ray Davies has a classic case of the Morrisseys

I have to admit that I am not attuned to that pov at all. I get it, but from a very remote and unemotional place. A lot of my exposure to this band has been radio - library - store where i worked - walking to work my first year in Chicago and the songs just have personal reminders to me in them, but not like LOADED WITH XXXTRA RACISM or aaaaanything like that.

Honestly, I have always just heard The Kinks music and that's it. I have liked them since I was a kid even when I couldn't figure out how all of these weird songs were all by the same band.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

I didn't think too hard about it either until ploughing through the 70s material on the boxset and discovering the (understandably excluded) Black Messiah. It's not a massive issue, but it does slightly change the tone of Village Green and Arthur when you know where this nostalgia was leading. Doesn't he also do a Shylock voice on the Lola album? There's definitely a weird line about Jews on When I Turn Off the Living Room Light as well, which he defends on his 2005 Livejournal (http://ray-davies.livejournal.com/):

Okay, a few of my managers and business associates in the 60s were overbearing cockney Jews. Believe me, growing up in Muswell Hill - I knew the type. I come from the Bagel Belt after all. Because a few people who screwed me over in life were Jewish and I like to make fun of them, does not make me a Nazi.

None of which means I don't love the Kinks, just that I'm fascinated by the weirdness of his politics and his tin ear for causing offence (cf the Apeman voice).

xp It blows my mind that the Kinks didn't split until 1996. The artist Jeremy Deller says that one of their 90s gigs is the only show he wishes he could wipe from his memory because it was so upsettingly bad.

And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

By 1996, it was just Dave and Ray anyway, wasn't it? I mean they had some hired hands who may have been around for a little or a long time, but The Kinks ceased to be "The Kinks" a long long long time before 1996.

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ray's first wife Raisa was Jewish iirc. I referred to that line in "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light" on the nominations thread cuz I've had arguments with another Jew about whether or not it's antisemitic (I am firmly in the NOT camp)

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

his tin ear for causing offence (cf the Apeman voice)

I don't see why the Apeman voice is offensive - the song is pretty clearly not mocking islanders or whatever - it's clearly sung from the perspective of a liberal, middle-class educated person.

o. nate, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mark G, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

The one Kinks show I saw, in 1993, was great. I felt bad for Dave, though; during his solo spot in the middle of the show (whatever his song on Phobia was), the aisles were filled with people rushing off to the bathrooms. The only seriously questionable moment was the extended set-piece of "Aggravation," with a couple of dancers and some pre-taped Ray commentary ("it was 50 years ago this year...that the aggravation started" or something).

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ray's first wife Raisa was Jewish iirc. I referred to that line in "When I Turn Off the Living Room Light" on the nominations thread cuz I've had arguments with another Jew about whether or not it's antisemitic (I am firmly in the NOT camp)

well...it's stupid at least

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think so...? it's about feeling insecure, and the different things people feel insecure about, particularly their bodies.

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Looking at that chart you think, jeez, all those former Kinks could probably form a band of their own.

And they did: http://kastoffkinks.co.uk/

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 15:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

damn, God's Children is disgusting. I knew Davies is insane but he's usually more subtle.
― gospodin simmel, Thursday, April 19, 2012 6:29 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The weird thing is that it's such a non-sequitir. "We're all God's children, so I hate the welfare state."

It's uncomfortably close to--hell, it's the same as--the bizzaro "logic" of the Christian right.

Either that means that Davies is uncannily perceptive on how a certain layer of the middle class feels about things, or… he is that person. I suspect the truth is kind of in between.

I kind of suspect that Davies doesn't really understand what it means to be a "socialist." For seem it seems a totem of his identification with the working class, but I doubt he's big on nationalized public services and higher taxes.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait why is god's children anti-welfare state

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think davies is confused about the kind of person he is tbh -- have you ever read X-Ray? he basically sees his life as one detachment after the next.

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, the o_O nature of the lyrics and association with the far xtian right is a good explanation of why I like it + add the most churchy melody of all time, and you have a song that I would be horrified to hear coming out of the mouths of babes at a school that does not teach children about evolution. It's intense!

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

also i like davies' cod-calypso voice. most of the time.

been listening to this bonnie raitt track recently (calypso arrangement by van dyke parks):

i can see how someone would think this was kind of a minstrel act, although knowing the scope of raitt's career i don't think anyone would seriously level that charge. on some level it's terribly misguided (and her vocal rhythms are off a few times) but i think it works. it helps that it's a song about women's sexual independence.

back to the kinks...

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait why is god's children anti-welfare state

― iatee, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:01 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the whole "they have no right to turn us into machines" echoes a common right-wing criticism of "left-wing social engineering"--also consistent with POV in a lot of other davies songs, no?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

that line can be taken different ways tho - turning people into machines is also common language of socialist critiques of capitalism

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

the whole "they have no right to turn us into machines" echoes a common right-wing criticism of "left-wing social engineering"--also consistent with POV in a lot of other davies songs, no?

it was a soundtrack for this:

Percy (1971) is a British comedy film directed by Ralph Thomas starring Hywel Bennett, Denholm Elliott, Elke Sommer and Britt Ekland.

Edwin (Bennett), an innocent and shy young man, is hit by a nude man falling from a high-rise building while carrying a chandelier. Edwin's penis is mutilated in the accident and has to be amputated; the falling man is killed.

Edwin becomes the recipient of the world's first penis transplant: he receives the very large, uncircumcised penis of the womanizer killed in the same accident. With his new bit of anatomy (which he names "Percy"), Edwin follows the womanizer's footsteps, meeting all his women friends, before settling happily with the donor's mistreated widow.

The film is based on a novel of the same name by Raymond Hitchcock (father of musician Robyn Hitchcock), and is today remembered for its soundtrack by The Kinks. It was followed by a 1974 sequel, Percy's Progress.

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

wtf at Hitchcock connection

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

what's your point?

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

'turn us into machines' = 'penis transplant'

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink


looks hilarious?

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's what I thought the song was about at first, honestly. I knew it was from that movie, and I knew the plot of the movie.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe. i guess i'd have to see the movie? which i kind of... don't want to do.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also cf. "20th Century Man" - I think Ray is perhaps distrustful of modern technological society, though I wouldn't equate that with conservative politics.

o. nate, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

At the time I first heard it, I had a friend who also was making this movie, so there must have been something in the air

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

You are not required to actually watch that trailer btw, I think the title says it all. But it was pretty funny iirc.

two overweight dachshunds with three eyes (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

I keep thinking about "Uncle Son" (re: Ray's politics):

Liberals dream of equal rights,
Conservatives live in a world gone by,
Socialists preach of a promised land,
But old uncle son, was an ordinary man.

Bless you uncle son,
They won't forget you, when the revolution comes.

Unionists tell you when to strike,
Generals tell you when to fight,
Preachers tell you wrong from right,
They'll feed you when you're born,
And use you all your life.

Waterloo? Oh, we've sunsetted that. (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

deeply cynical all the way around

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp I think "o_O" is the most accurate description of RD's politics.

And I have been called "The Appetite" (DL), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

the idea of there being an "ordinary man" who is somehow completely outside politics is kind of o_O itself. it's a really condescending conceit, like he imagines his "ordinary man" to be some kind of naïf.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha but the thing is ray davies is kinda a good example of an 'ordinary man who is somehow completely outside politics' who basically is some kind of naif w/ this stuff

iatee, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^

Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

heckuva songwriter, though, right?

tylerw, Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's weird that the first two kinks albums (and contemporaneous singles etc) are full of these optimistic songs (something better beginning, wait til the summer comes along, etc.) and then with "where have all the good times gone" there's this shift to rueful nostalgia that never goes away and just becomes deeper and more cynical.

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha but the thing is ray davies is kinda a good example of an 'ordinary man who is somehow completely outside politics' who basically is some kind of naif w/ this stuff

― iatee, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:27 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's not true, really. he's just embodied a lot of contradictions and swung back and forth. he

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

heckuva songwriter, though, right?

― tylerw, Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:28 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 19 April 2012 16:29 (2 years ago) Permalink


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