Fascinating quote from Hutter.
I've read that Bangs piece many times, and I can't help thinking he made up all the Kraftwerk quotes himself.
― Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Sunday, 15 April 2012 02:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
i actually had drunken conversations with both byron AND christgau in the last month. both very pleasant evenings and conversations really. they both have really big brains.
― scott seward, Sunday, 15 April 2012 02:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
oh but that's what i wanted to add: creem's whole THE STOOGES ARE THE BEST BAND IN THE WORLD thing and all that from back then. i didn't have to fight those wars. i didn't have to champion BOC as an antidote to anything. so its a totally different worldview/experience that those guys had. i have never felt threatened by uh i dunno Bread or James Taylor or whatever rock band those hepcat crits thought was phoney or whatever st the time.
― scott seward, Sunday, 15 April 2012 02:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah I was being over the top in criticizing Xgau; i mean, i own the 70s and 80s guides and i've read them both pretty much from start to finish. and i do think he is a great writer. but almost NEVER agree with him on anything. and he is such a killjoy. and i do wonder if his talent would be better applied doing .... something else. of course he must enjoy on some level all of the records that he ranks highly. but i really do think there is some quote out there somewhere where he talks about the reviewing as his job, and sort of states that he can't afford to get too invested in 'music' qua particular artists, albums, etc
― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 15 April 2012 03:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
The Guides show how over time he's gotten into some acts he initially dismissed, like Sonic Youth, who have gotten at least one A+, and he sez "I love 'em to piecees." And he's long-time friends with some musicians, but the thing is, Stormy, it's not fair to the readers if you're too invested in particular artists. Like Chuck quoted Byron (in an interview, so no secret), as saying of Sonic Youth and the Swans, "Those people are my friends," and he'd never say anything to offend them. This as a reply to Chuck expressing some of what he thought were these bands weak points, and implying that however true such comments were, he, Coley, was in no position to agree. Got so bad, Mykel Board even put out those parody records, as Swanic Youth and Swan Jovi, although they were advertised in Forced Exposure, Coley saw the humor of the whole thing. But being friends or even just sort of pen pals, I've seen how musicians can look for, even assumme an advantage in that. Good that Bangs gave Lanier a hard time in Creem, recounting drunken arguments, when he thought they were turning into the kind of arena hacks they'd started out turning into glorious parodies. Speaking of arena rock, I wasn't a professional writer then, but my friends who were (also photographers) got so fucking sick of that shit in the early 70s--it wasn't like being in high school and having these occasional weekend adventures, if you were in NYC especially, like Xgau, who also went to clubs a lot (and had been writing about shows, band profiles, etc, in between reviews, for six or seven years before BOC made it downstate), you too might have an aversion to seeing the same moves, on stage and in the audience, every night. One reason punk had to happen, for crits and others. But BOC were great when they were any good at all (he's really wrong about On Your Feet) Music is about the power of association, and it can be really hard to get past the social associations--certain sounds can remind you of certain assholes, and you stop listening before you follow the sound to the artist's intended effect--or even if you do follow it--so xgau knew perfectly well what they were doing, but the assholes from last night's show, and tonight's, and tomorrow night, kept giving him static, Plus, he's never approved much metal, only Motorhead and Slayer come to mind. His loss, of course.
― dow, Sunday, 15 April 2012 04:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
Sorry to get into that "you" shit, just bad rhetoric, I've had kneejerk responses too of course.
― dow, Sunday, 15 April 2012 04:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
no strong opinion on christgau. read his consumer guides for years as a matter of course and never got much out of them. they mostly seemed mechanical, and i never got a bead on where he was coming from.
coley was a god to me in my late teens & early 20s, his FE salad days, and the dog story is funny, but i just can't get on board with that attitude. i love the bands and records he bashes xgau for liking, but i've never thought anyone was a better or worse critic on the basis of their fucking taste. i don't give a shit about that. i just want to read good writing that expresses interesting thinking. that somebody prefers some nameless bette midler record i'll never hear to clear spot? i don't give a shit about that.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 05:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
anyway...
i cut "don't fear the reaper" and "burning for you" from my POX. i cut them because they loom so large over the band's pop career that it seems redundant to actually mention them. they were the first BOC songs i ever loved, and i love them still, so trust me, they're in here:
1) The Red and the Black - Tyranny and Mutation2) Black Blade - Cultosaurus Erectus3) Before the Kiss, a Redcap - Blue Oyster Cult4) Career of Evil - Secret Treaties5) The Subhuman (live) - On Your Feet or On Your Knees6) Screams/She's as Beautiful as a Foot - Blue Oyster Cult*7) Dominance and Submission - Secret Treaties8) Astronomy (live) - Some Enchanted Evening9) Godzilla (live) - Some Enchanted Evening10) Unknown Tongue - Cultosaurus Erectus
* cheating, yeah, but i can't separate 'em
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 06:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
i love the bands and records he bashes xgau for liking, but...
uh, make that, "i love the bands and records he bashes xgau for disliking, but..."
xp
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 07:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
I get annoyed by Xgau bashing. He's a great writer. The point of the best writing is not that you're expected to agree.
― broom air, Sunday, 15 April 2012 15:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
can't find my s/t LP, but just unearthed the 2001 reissue, with four bonus Soft White Underbelly tracks. Don't know if s/t was re-mastered too much, or not enough, but listening on good headphones, immediately reminded of the reason I didn't use headphones much back in the day: instruments crowd the vocals. Also, the guitar solos aren't doing much, it's more about the groovy exotic textures, like in "Screams," and the fluidity of transitions, transformations, like passing through the snaaake--still, a bit subtle for '72 boys (time of Quaaludes, cheap booze, dirtweed; nobody I know could afford decent coke, except those shady trust fund kids)Were tney really going for a mass audience for this, or crit-bait? If so, guess it was publicity for the tours, which they quickly became known for. But I still like most of the songs, and some of the performances (yeah, "Before The Kiss, A Redcap," for inst) Really smitten anew by "Redeemed": sounds like a sinister Band song, as if Robertson had gotten lured deeper into "Jupiter's Hollow." After all this conjectural consideration by the masterminds, the Soft White Underbelly tracks jump right out. Much faster, more nimble, no prob w Dharma solos here, or Lanier's keys, Al's drumming, damn--reminds me, what are Brain Surgeons NYC up to these days? I like 'em. Also, anybody heard Dharma's solo album? Or more Soft White Underbell? Here's the ones here:"Donovan's Monkey," "What Is Quicksand?" "A Fact About Sneakers," and "Betty Lou's Got A New Pair of Shoes."
― dow, Sunday, 15 April 2012 20:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
the first BOC album was remastered in 2001, but still sounds muddy as hell. agree that the guitar solos aren't really jaw-dropping, but i think they generally serve the tunes and moods quite well, for ex the surging melodic ascent at the center of "transmaniacon MC". i'm also somewhat surprised by the critical acclaim heaped on the debut at the time, as it seems a bit uneven and formative in retrospect. the songs i love best are "transmaniacon", "before the kiss", "screams"/"she's a s beautiful", "cities on flame" and "workshop of the telescopes" (terribly underrated imo). the others are interesting, but not quite there. maybe i'm slighting "stairway to the stars", i dunno...
never got the hang of the SFG/SWU stuff. faster and more nimble, yeah, like tyranny and mutation minus the heavy metal, but too SF-style jammy and structurally loose for my taste. "arthur comics" is the one SFG track i keep coming back to.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 21:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
These four tracks are very concise, though chock full of goodness. Yeah, "She's As Beautiful As A Foot," music *and* words, Meltzer done good.
― dow, Sunday, 15 April 2012 21:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
Last I heard Joe Bouchard was in a band with Dennis Dunaway. (Playing guitar.) I hope there's a lost Allen Lanier album out there somewhere, perhaps a treasure trove of troubled torch songs, in the vein of "Dance The Night Away". (One of the bonus tracks on the remastered Agents of Fortune.
― henry s, Sunday, 15 April 2012 21:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
"Gil Blanco County" is a beautiful one from the Stalk-Forrest Group album. Sounds a little like Notorious Byrd Brothers.
― timellison, Sunday, 15 April 2012 21:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
You don't say! Intriguing, esp. considering the twisted rootsiness of "Redeemed," and the twangy, slippery garage(revving up for the arena) boogie feel at times in these BOC/SWU tracks. Also maybe a foretaste of the sinister Byrdsy serenity now of "Don't Fear The Reaper."
― dow, Sunday, 15 April 2012 21:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
i cut "don't fear the reaper" and "burning for you" from my POX. i cut them because they loom so large over the band's pop career that it seems redundant to actually mention them.
yeah me too. but i feel bad not voting for any songs w/meltzer lyrics - "stairway to the stars" instead of "godzilla" would be my do-over
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Sunday, 15 April 2012 22:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
don't understand why xgau would even come up on this thread, it's not like he wrote any lyrics for BOC. "in thee" not exactly running up the votes here
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Sunday, 15 April 2012 22:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
then again, this is DEEP: "history shows again and again how nature points up the folly of men Godzilla!"
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Sunday, 15 April 2012 22:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Sunday, 15 April 2012 22:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Sunday, April 15, 2012 3:45 PM (20 minutes ago)
OTM
― does Red Stripe work like poppers? (Abbbottt), Sunday, 15 April 2012 23:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
This is impossible, this is not a real top ten, these are ten.
MommyBlack BladeFlaming Telepaths7 Screaming Diz-BustersDeadlineShe's As Beautiful As A FootVeinsWings Wetted DownDominance and SubmissionA Fact ABout Sneakers
― does Red Stripe work like poppers? (Abbbottt), Sunday, 15 April 2012 23:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
Mommy probably does not belong in there but I have put it on every mix tape ever.
I hate dem dames!
Flaming Telepaths7 Screaming Diz-BustersDeadlineWings Wetted Down
yeah, flirted with all these BOC. my PanotherX (w "reaper", "burning" & the studio versions of the live songs i mentioned earlier still sidelined but implied):
Transmaniacon MCWorkshop of the TelescopesWings Wetted Down7 Screaming Diz BustersHarvester of EyesFlaming TelepathsThis Ain't the Summer of LoveDeadlineFire of Unknown OriginKick Out the Jams (live) - championed upthread by m@tt, i've listened to it probably 30 times since, so great and, yeah, better than the MC5's originalArthur Comics
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 23:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
err, 11, and i'm still cutting so much stuff i'd want on my own personal "best of" mix
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 23:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
err, championed in the BOC albums thread
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Sunday, 15 April 2012 23:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
buck's guitar on "arthur comics" is as beautiful as a foot
― demolition with discretion (m coleman), Monday, 16 April 2012 00:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
many xposts, dow, as far as I know Brain Surgeons NYC split up when Albert and his wife/bandmate split up inamicably a few years ago. Denial Of Death is a great album if you don't have it.
I think the Bouchard Bros. are doing a new band now... Blue Coupe?
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, 16 April 2012 16:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
Damn, too bad about Brain Surgeons NYC. Wonder if Deborah Frost is still preforming, writing about music? They weren't perfect, but certainly could go on a roll. Songs like "1864" and "Lonestar" even got 'em on my Nashville Scene ballot (re xpost "twisted rootsiness" of some BOC upthread)
― dow, Monday, 16 April 2012 17:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
And didn't Al Bouchard review for Downbeat?
― dow, Monday, 16 April 2012 17:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
Cites on FlameThen Came the Last Days of MayThe Red and the BlackHot Rails to HellSeven Screaming DizbustersDominance and SubmissonThis Aint the Summer of LoveETI (live off of Some Enchanted Evening)AstronomyGodzilla
― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, 16 April 2012 17:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
"even got 'em on my Nashville Scene ballot (re xpost "twisted rootsiness" of some BOC upthread)"
i always thought of "Godzilla" as chopped & screwed Lynyrd Skynyrd.
― scott seward, Monday, 16 April 2012 17:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
Finally signed up for Spotify, now attempting to queue up M@tt's BOC playlist...
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, 16 April 2012 18:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
OK what's up with the belching sound effects and how do i make it stop. Is this punishment for users of the free option?
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, 16 April 2012 18:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
I prefer rdio.com's freebie--no ads, no burps.
― dow, Monday, 16 April 2012 18:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
LOLOLOL it was the website I had open in another tab of a meat pie restaurant!
(it was consistently coming in on beat during Hot Rails To Hell!)
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, 16 April 2012 18:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
save that lucky accident! for the djs post your mixes here thread
― dow, Monday, 16 April 2012 18:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, April 16, 2012 1:02 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'm very happy with my playlist but i had to make a conscious effort not to include every song from Tryanny & Secret Treaties so a few good ones get left out....but you kinda have to or it's more just a complete discography not a mix
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 16 April 2012 18:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
also: Imaginos isn't on spotify so that album is not represented (though i understand i'm probably not missing much)
Cello on Joan Crawford <3 <3 <3
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, 16 April 2012 19:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
m@tt have you done one of these for Rush?
nah i've only done 2 big playlists, an old school rap one and BOC, both were just sort of spur of the moment things when i got into spotify, shit i was into listening to, but yeah would be fun to listen to a bunch of rush for a week and do one
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 16 April 2012 19:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
This is great bc I really wanted to put all my BOC on the ipod for work today but was too exhausted last night.
― tales from endoscopic oceans (Jon Lewis), Monday, 16 April 2012 19:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'm actually listening to it now..."i love the night" is a thing of strange beauty
― Mississippi Butt Hurt (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 16 April 2012 19:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
Best BOC song: Veterans of the Psychic Wars
― Poliopolice, Monday, 16 April 2012 19:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
^ used to think this. find it a bit tiresome now. not saying that it's bad, just that its pop rewards are slight.
― BEMORE SUPER FABBY (contenderizer), Monday, 16 April 2012 20:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
Wow, I just heard the most awful dance-pop cover of "Burnin' For You". Going by wiki it might have been the Shiny Toy Guns cover, but I'm not familiar with them enough to know if it was or not. It was a trainwreck.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
A much happier wreck: the use of BOC's original over the car crash scene in Let Me In.
― Hierophantiasis (Jon Lewis), Monday, 7 May 2012 18:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
Huh, maybe I will have to watch that sometime.
― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 7 May 2012 19:09 (1 year ago) Permalink