Is this anti-semitism?

The comments of Mel Gibson that Joe Esterhaze quoted do seem to be somewhat antisemitic. On the other hand, I am not sure how reliable a witness Joe Esterhaze is about anything.

Meanwhile, re. "shyster":

most now seem to think it derives from the german sheisser, though there's no way to be certain. descent from shakespeare's shylock and/or a shady lawyer supposedly named "sheuster" said to be authoritatively debunked. associated from its earliest use with lawyers and in recent years seen as at least indirectly anti-semitic.

Would sheisser have found its way into Yiddish and come to English from there rather than directly from German? That would not make it antisemitic in origin, obv, but you could see why racist morons might then start applynig it back to the community from which it came.

Also, are sororities anti-Semitic if they don't have any Jews in them? This is discussion I had with a family member the other day. I say "yes".

I am unfamiliar with sororities, but would it be antisemitic for one to have no Jewish members if, say, none had applied for membership or any who had been asked to join had declined?

And this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/apr/05/gunter-grass-what-must-be-said?intcmp=239

Is this antisemitic in terms of its content (if so, what in particular?) or because of who said it (in terms of his nationality and his record in the second world war)? Or is it not antisemitic at all?

Sorry, I see I have mis spelt the name of Joe Eszterhas.

Bad verse and simplistic politics, yes. Anti-semitism, no.

Sort of germane to this thread, can anyone recommend a good, fair treatment of the Rothschild familiy? I'm reading "The Ascent of Money" right now, which has sections on the Rothschilds, and for all its attempts to hedge against anti-semitism, the descriptions sound kind of anti-semitic to me. Then again, it may be that the Rothschilds were genuinely dislikable people with ridiculous amounts of power, and it may also be that a lot of the historical record of them is through the already anti-semitic lenses of the time. Anyway, it's pretty interesting and not a subject I previously knew much about.

wow an amazon search for books on the rothschilds brings up some pretty depressing results

Not an answer at all, Hurting, but allow me to take the opportunity to recommend

http://www.amazon.com/The-Warburgs-Twentieth-Century-Odyssey-Remarkable/dp/0679743596

God, that Grass poem is horrible. Ever since the guy came out as a former Nazi he's been awash in this weird hand-wringing pathos, like giving in to his own emotional truth has transformed him into a tribunal for everyone else yet to own up to their various crimes.

Also, I totally believe Eszterhas.

wow an amazon search for books on the rothschilds brings up some pretty depressing results

When I was in Italy last year I was astonished to see a TV programme about the Rothschilds presented by a guy wearing a balaclava which seemed to be saying that they were the secret rulers of the world and were controlling Europe through an almost literal web of influence spreading across the continent. I felt like I was watching Protocols TV. And this would have been on a mainstream enough channel, not some crazy cable outlet. But then Italy did have a far-right government at the time.

I suppose as leading financiers who happen to be Jewish it is easy for the Rothschilds to have all kinds of antisemitic fantasies pinned to them. But it may also be possible to dislike financiers generally regardless of their religion and ethnicity.

i think a pretty telling question is how many other 19th century european financier families can you or anyone else name

That's a good point Mordy... Also, how many people talk about the Chases and Morgans and such? WASP banking families have never gained the kind of notoriety of the Rothchilds, and I doubt the reason for that was that they were nicer people or something.

the rothschilds are still p prominent, in england and probably france too, nat rothschild used to sctup n portman among others

idk if the warburgs or barings or medicis are still running around

/schtup

haha iirc one of the rothschilds is some kind of bizarre 1% PUMA who got a lot of press in 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Forester_de_Rothschild

Lynn Forester de Rothschild was introduced to Sir Evelyn de Rothschild by Henry Kissinger at the 1998 Bilderberg Group conference

oooh nbd

there's a famous ~19th century joke where a cheder teacher tells his friend, "if i were a Rothschild, i would be even wealthier than a Rothschild." his friend asks, "why?" and he responds, "because I would teach a little cheder on the side."

Hurting, do you get the sense from that book you are reading that the Rothschilds were an order of magnitude bigger than any other financier family in the 19th century, or where they just as big as the others?

haha 'lady lynn' was the subject of probably the only funny thing mickey kaus ever said: "You lost me at 'de.'"

idk if the warburgs or barings or medicis are still running around

There are various Medici clans still claiming titles. The Fugger family (pictured below, looking much as you'd expect) is still going too. They have limited assets and influence, though.

http://i.imgur.com/5K0ya.jpg

Part of the Rothchild fame is definitely down to anti-semitism, part's down to the fact that there hasn't been anyone richer since.

That's a good point Mordy... Also, how many people talk about the Chases and Morgans and such? WASP banking families have never gained the kind of notoriety of the Rothchilds, and I doubt the reason for that was that they were nicer people or something.

OWS & the 99%ers made a big deal out of chase bank's connections to the nazis, but that's an institution, not a family. the rockefeller name lingers in the (american) public memory as a symbol of vast family wealth in a way that's comparable to that of the rothchilds.

OMG: http://www.inquisitr.com/218266/jon-lovitz-harnesses-power-of-twitter-gets-teen-bullies-expelled-from-school/

Is this old news?

damn what is with people. the mom drove them?

kudos on not even drawing the swastika right

Okay the mom driving them is the WORST part of that story.

them getting kicked out of school and possibly charged is the best part

no i think jon lovitz fucking their lives up for good is the best part

that is a terrible story and I feel really, really awful for laughing so hard at that misshapen swastika

it's the misshapen swastika and their public humiliation in conjunction with that pic of the three of them flipping off the camera all badass that makes it comedy gold.

that and the fact that I could name at least 3 girls we grew up with who are very very happy they became adults before the Internet was widely available for them to immortalize their idiocy

my wife once had anti-semitic (and crazy) roommates who poured maple syrup all over the floor when it was her turn to clean the kitchen (it wasn't clear exactly whether this was specifically anti-semitic or just some kind of general bizarre grudge, they were very strange). Do anti-semites have some kind of a thing for maple syrup?

huh that is odd. maybe it's a coincidental wasp thing

i am a wasp. we do like maple syrup.

I think maple syrup is just a vandalism thing because it's a bitch to clean up.

Exactly.

was it mrs butterworth? because i've heard things

what, that it was originally Butzerwitsky?

there's a famous ~19th century joke where a cheder teacher tells his friend, "if i were a Rothschild, i would be even wealthier than a Rothschild." his friend asks, "why?" and he responds, "because I would teach a little cheder on the side."

― Mordy, Thursday, April 12, 2012 11:44 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol i remember that from the big book of jewish humor (great book). great joke.

I DON'T GET IT

I TRIED

NO GET

the joke is that if the cheder teacher were a rothschild, and thefore super rich, he would still teach cheder so he could make even more money even though the money he'd be paid for teaching cheder would be paltry compared to his wealth as a rothschild

hilarious

i thought it was pretty funny tbh

i thought it was pretty funny

[dangit max]

*sigh*

Can I not convert if I don't get it/find it amusing even when it is explained to me?

no

aw shucks. Well, I didn't really love Blazing Saddles or any other Mel Brooks stuff, either.

I told my wife that joke and she immediately got it and also couldn't explain why it's funny. I think it's something about the combination of money-obsession, unrealistic fantasizing and old-world shtetl provincialness. It's not only that the extra money he'd make teaching hebrew school is meaningless next to Rothschild wealth, it's also that he clearly has no conception of Rothschild wealth because he's just some poor rebbe from Lodz or something. Yeah, hard to explain.