possibly a tiny bit too on the nose for tim's 'beats as storyteller' binary (ie. erm, ultradeluxe triphop and not dance music per se maybe) but everything coming after the intro setpiece here is just fantastically, captivatingly atmospheric and evocative, always keeping you in this prowling lull but constantly offguard in a unsettling state of paranoiac restlessness, nightmares in paradise
― r|t|c, Thursday, 12 April 2012 11:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
I get the trepidation re 'fit' but nonetheless that's awesome!
― Tim F, Thursday, 12 April 2012 12:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
idk what an r&bist approach to rhythm would even be!
In retrospect I was half-remembering what you'd said at the top of the thread:
garage i've always thought of as pop music, and when it comes to pop/r&b my platonic ideal is basically the janet/ciara style of rhythms that may be ridiculously fast or complex but are fundamentally steady enough to use in the regimented atmosphere of a street dance class. 2-step beats fit into that framework, loosely.
I know that doesn't really explain your love of house and techno except perhaps analogously - i.e. something (rhythms, synth tones etc.) takes the place of the "song" and more generally the place of rhythm is as something that can be distinct and impressive but always in the service of a broader structure which it underpins.
― Tim F, Thursday, 12 April 2012 12:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
The Razors edge, posted up-thread, has to be one of the most undervalued example of rhythmic science in jungle. Skeleton on a whole were a killer label, its just a shame they didnt have a Pete Parsons on board as the production is invariably dodgy.
Some of the later adventures of Steve Gurley are great examples of stuff that straddles the line between experimentation and danceability:
D'Cruze is often accused of crossing that line, especially with 'control', but I reckon he mostly stays on the right side:
Always loved this one, weird off kilter beat, with the amen pushed tight down in the mix. Really come into its own in the mix:
― droid, Friday, 20 April 2012 09:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
Hi droid, never realized you posted here. Mercy Mercy is big big big, yes.I'm not the biggest fan of his stuff generally but Cool Hand Flex did some to go through a real purple patch round about 94-95:
& of course
Mercy Mercy definitely the stand-out for me though.
― Mr Andy M, Saturday, 21 April 2012 22:22 (1 year ago) Permalink
One for rtc and the juxtaposition/r&b/dancehall heads (maybe):
― Mr Andy M, Saturday, 21 April 2012 22:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Tim F, Sunday, 22 April 2012 00:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
i don't actually think i ever loved a funky house tune for its rhythm.
THIS IS INSANE TO ME.
― hologram ned raggett (The Reverend), Sunday, 22 April 2012 08:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one who listens to funky for rhythm (inter alia) - was starting to feel like a pariah weirdo.
― Tim F, Sunday, 22 April 2012 10:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah, for me a huge part of funky's appeal was the fact that it seemed to be on a constant quest to find interesting new variations of rhythms i already liked
― hologram ned raggett (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 03:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
I have a piece coming out in a french journal in a few months about funky's approach to rhythm and it's on exactly this point, the way in which funky seemed to slide between the rhythmically familiar and the unfamiliar, managing to be rhythmically comforting and confounding at the same time. This isn't a new trick in dance music but I tend to think funky's golden age took it an extreme (to the extent one can describe such a state of inbetweenness as "extreme").
― Tim F, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
rhythmically comforting and confounding at the same time.
spot on. one of those central tensions.
― hologram ned raggett (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
i don't think i ever heard funky as rhythmically confounding - insofar as i noticed the rhythms they provided a very comforting sweet spot
― liberté, égalité, beyoncé (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 09:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
Lex it's fair to say that little if any of the funky you seemed to like most could be described as rhythmically confounding, in particular stuff like "In The Air" and "Falling Again" are basically straight vocal house.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 09:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
I have a piece coming out in a french journal in a few months about funky's approach to rhythm
― etc, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 09:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
it'll be in french though.
Rev, did you ever hear Dubplate Wonder's Wonderland 09 set? It's all his own productions and it is basically all about that tension, 100%.
― Tim F, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
Pretty much cosign what Rev & Tim are saying about funky.
Having another boring day where I'm trying to get myself writing, so thought I'd throw in some more thoughts on the whole is jungle danceable/how do you dance to jungle thing -I guess there were aspects of it that I initially had problems with as a dance, but for me it wasn’t so much the full-on Amen rinse-out tunes that I had problems with – yeah it could be difficult, at times nearly impossible to follow every single beat on them but I could at least generally spasm about to them in the same way that I used to do with like Bad Brains or F-Minus or whatever. I guess in that respect it’s helpful that the Amen break has an inherent degree of energy and forward-motion in it that will come through no matter what way it’s chopped and reordered.
The kind of tunes I had more trouble with were the very strongly reggae-influenced tunes that mostly came out in 94 at the peak of jungle’s popularity. Trying to think of good examples here – Dem A Gwarn Like Dem Know Badness by Tek 9 would be one, or even Idiot Sound by New Blood. Both great tunes of course, and there were loads of others in that style that I loved and straight away wanted to dance to, i.e. I found the rhythmically compelling but wasn’t quite sure how to move my body to them. I think part of this came from how the producers folded the breakbeats down into that skanking reggae groove – it would create an effect where the beat would seem to drop out at unexpected places, or else where the overall beat pattern of the tune would feel lop-sided or lurching until you got used to it. I think I’ve pretty much got there with dancing to these tunes – of course, like with almost all dance music I’m never sure that I’m dancing the right way to it. I’ve danced to jungle in clubs but not really for full sets and obv not with og jungle ravers so it’s hard to measure my moves against anything. But I can move to it without really thinking about it now which I think is a big part of it, like I’m not often standing around and hesitating.
― Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 12:54 (1 year ago) Permalink
As a dancer the first kind of jungle tunes that did hook me were along the lines of the M-Beat one I posted upthread, i.e. ones with a beat pattern that was immediately captivating but also concise and not too difficult to follow. Also more steady-rollin’ kind of tunes like The Burial, Helicopter Tune, Sovereign Melody etc. Those were the ones I found myself intuitively making moves to while listening.
― Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
Lol 'as a dancer' sounds so pompous, 'from a dancing pov' is maybe a better way to put it.
― Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'm with the lex on this thread. man, its hard for me to think of too many genres or sub-genres i never want to hear. but this would be one of them. and i try too. i just played portions of every youtube on this thread.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
Hey Andy - I used to post a bit on ILC, but I mainly lurk waiting for that rare beast - a good thread about jungle.
RE: Flex. He's a bit patchy fer sure , but I'll forgive him anything because of this:
And this sublime pulsating bass hot pants 4/4 kick combo:
― droid, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
Hey Andy - I used to post a bit on ILC, but I mainly lurk waiting for that rare beast - a good thread about jungle.Haha I feel you on this - don't post here all that much but when I first saw this thread my eyes totally lit up. Trying to get a bit more involved with things here at the moment though.Had forgotten about Ya Buzzin Again actually, it's a good 'un yeah.Have listened to that Steve Gurley FX In Dub Mix tune you posted 10+ times in the last few days btw, so good.
― Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:50 (1 year ago) Permalink