The Manson family vs. the West family

note that in my years of absence from the game I've elevated myself from floor staff to charge nurse, suck it haters

congrats placenta

http://neil-paton.tripod.com/abb0008.jpg

Aero, I've showered Mr. Manson and Mr. Koresh, passed all of the ice, collected all of the trays, and gotten sexually harassed by the guy in 7C, can I go to lunch now?

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l4u82nj0cS1qb2ssvo1_500.jpg

clem grogan was convicted of murder and released on parole in '85

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Z_JEL2HOo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaAcnSnI-fI

this edit of this response succeeds in scaring the shit out of me every time. the longer edit is also scary but I feel like there's a biblical callback in "nobody" though I can't find the biblical source so it could be a pop-culture thing like an exorcism movie. either way this has always scared the hell out of me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2oZWpqtNi4

manson needs to be let out and given his own talk show, this is for the good of society

ATP curated by Charles Manson

'do something witchhousey'

I feel like there's a biblical callback in "nobody"

are you sure you aren't thinking of Homer

maybe but I think in some 70s exorcism thing, maybe in the Exorcist itself, a demon when interrogated responds "I'm no-one"

Homer's a pretty glaring weak spot for me, I read it in English a loooong time ago & did like the first 200 lines in Gk in lol college but I'm less familiar w/the important stuff in it than I oughta be

"I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you – Nobody – too?
Then there's a pair of us!
Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know!

How dreary – to be – Somebody!
How public – like a Frog –
To tell one's name – the livelong June –
To an admiring Bog!"

-Emily Dickinson's

He kind of looks like George Carlin in that short clip, when he's mugging.

there's no such thing as solitary in hopitals, it's against the law. in California a doctor has to renew the order for seclusion every two hours. this is a good law, btw, it means I can't keep you locked in a room because it's inconvenient for my nursing staff to deal with you. but it's why a criminally insane person belongs in a prison, where the rules are different.

Do you have anything similar to Broadmoor in the US? It's a hospital run with the same kind of security as a prison? The patients aren't in solitary confinement but there are more restrictions and lots of the staff are former prison officers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadmoor_Hospital

Arkham Asylum. Tho' the security is pretty lax iirc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0v2bVX8j4

finally getting around to reading Helter Skelter

I read that when I was like 13 years old and it scared the living bejeebus out of me. I slept with the lights on for a week.

manson family vs. danson family

http://www.bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ted-Danson-and-Mary-Steenburgen-with-their-blended-family.jpg

vs. the Hanson family.

http://www.hansonplace.blogger.com.br/00248.jpg

Phil, I also read that way too young

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1Fxoub89XFM/SSOCnRQJfHI/AAAAAAAAAEc/SpuBHquVOw4/s320/sanders.jpg

Yeah, I think I read H/S when I was 12 or 13

SACRAMENTO — Gov. Jerry Brown has about a month to decide whether to release a former follower of notorious killer Charles Manson from prison.

Bruce Davis, 70, has been behind bars since 1970, convicted with Manson of the murder of a musician and a stuntman. He was not involved in the Manson family's infamous 1969 slayings of Sharon Tate and four others in a Benedict Canyon home.

Davis is incarcerated at the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo, where he has a clean record and is active in prison ministries, his lawyer told the parole officials. A prisons panel first granted him parole in 2010, citing his record and his completion of rehabilitation programs.

Then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger reversed the decision. Davis won a legal challenge to the reversal but lost last year on appeal.

Los Angeles County Dist. Atty. Jackie Lacey has urged Brown not to release Davis. In a three-page letter to the governor Jan. 24, she described Davis as Manson's "right-hand man" and said he poses an "unreasonable risk of danger to society."

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1410809.1374971616!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image-1-1410809.jpg

New Manson book out. Far more information on his early pre-Manson Family life. From the NY Times review:

On the evidence of “Manson,” a lot of the mystical aura surrounding Mr. Manson was less real than imagined by a terrified populace and titillated press corps. But Mr. Guinn doesn’t buy any cultist mumbo-jumbo. The cover of “Manson” pointedly features a photo of its subject not as Crazy Charlie, as he sometimes called himself, but as a smiling, suit-wearing, precocious little crook in his pimply years.

Mr. Guinn’s main thesis is that Charlie Manson was a lifelong social predator: “There was nothing mystical or heroic about Charlie — he was an opportunistic sociopath.” And in 1967, when he walked out of prison at 32 and began trolling for acolytes in Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco, the culture of national upheaval “made it possible for him to bloom in full, malignant flower.”

Among the sources for Mr. Guinn’s account are Mr. Manson’s sister and his first cousin, whose anonymity he takes care to preserve. He has even found a schoolmate to describe the abusive teacher who treated Charlie harshly in the first grade. By that point, he had already seen his willful teenage mother sent to prison for her role in a robbery (the assault weapon: a ketchup bottle); she had singled out the victim, she said, because he “had too much money for one man.” Were the seeds of the Manson Family’s savage Tate-LaBianca murders sown this early? Mr. Guinn thinks so. His punchy style renders the mother’s first crime as “an impetuous decision that would affect — and cost — lives over the next three-quarters of a century.”

His mother’s first conviction steered her young son toward a string of reform schools and prisons, places that shaped his education. He listened to pimps explain how to control women. He read the brand-new teachings of Scientology. And, in the kind of touch that keeps “Manson” steadily surprising, Mr. Guinn points straight to a link between Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People” to Mr. Manson’s methods of persuasion. Among one of Mr. Carnegie’s lesser-known statements: “Everything you or I do springs from two motives: the sex urge and the desire to be great.” Mr. Manson clearly took that and “Begin in a friendly way” to heart.

manson is an abusive sociopath, which alone is not illegal, but, yeah, if you prove that you can manifest that pathology in a way that ends with innocent people being horribly slaughtered then you should be isolated from society forever. he gets 3 hots and a cot and slavering fanpeople for the rest of his days, plus interviews. if a free man he would probably be waving a cardboard sign under a bridge at this point. as mentioned already, he's managed to make his last name more notorious and ruined than anyone besides genocidal dictators. he def knows how to charm. i hate prisons but would not feel a twinge if he died there.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/is-charles-manson-getting-married-20131120

Rolling Stone again, long piece on Manson today:

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/charles-manson-today-the-final-confessions-of-a-psychopath-20131121

Didn't realize until I came across it in a store last week that Ed Sanders put out a book on Sharon Tate last year.

the best thing that could happen to that narcissist is if everybody stopped paying attention to him

Him and Trump, of course. Re the ending of 2013 piece reposted on Stone, saw recently that the marriage license has expired.

something about the reporter in that rs piece turned me off

As that Rolling Stone article proves, Charlie's not even that interesting to read about. The continuing fascination with him is based on his status as an icon of evil, based on the legend built up by his prosecutor during the trial, not because he says or does stuff worth paying attention to. He touches the reporter on the nose unexpectedly and plays up his rep as a dangerous killer. He eagerly eats a candy bar. He talks wistfully about having sex with many young women almost half a century ago. In other words, he's a lot like any other long time inmate.

yeah exactly

he's not *actually* interesting at all

Still haven't read the RS piece, but as Jeff Guinn frames him in the book pictured above, I think Manson can be very interesting to read about. Trump: when I read the RS subheading, "He's nearly 80 and his Family is smaller, but darkness still surrounds America's most notorious criminal," the darkness part made me think of Trump's concession speech! (There seems to be no end to Trump's family, though.)

I was downtown today with no book and time to kill, so I bought Ed Sanders' Sharon Tate book.

weeeell given that i've read most of what there is to read on manson you could say i find him interesting.

it just bugs me that that that article affords him far too much thrall when so much of him is base, mundane & manipulative.

i liked that guinn approached him in a mundane, ordinary light. he's like a violent resentful PT Barnum who just wants to get over on any and every weak person who crosses paths with him.

Low-grade con man, no argument. I guess what I find so interesting myself--and I think it's there in Guinn's book, at least implicitly--is that his particular con was so perfectly suited to the time and the place that he accidentally found himself thrust into when he was released from prison roundabout 1964.

(Which doesn't explain why people like "Star" gravitate towards him today, although there's a different dynamic there--no less perverse--involving celebrity and such.)

yeah he has popularity working for him now, which he for sure didnt have back then. which i guess is where the interest lies. reeling in wilson & melcher, as well as the girls & tex et al through sheer manipulation

Trump's concession speech!

Freudian slip, wishful thinking, something like that.

thread title takes on a whole new meaning in the kanye/kim era

...or does it?

*steeples fingers, raises one eyebrow*

Is anyone watching the NBC series Aquarius, with David Duchovny, which is about an LAPD detective investigating Manson (and other things) in the months before the murders? It's pretty watchable, though it does try to cover too many bases, I think.

thread title takes on a whole new meaning in the kanye/kim era

lol I assumed this was who it was about before I saw the thread date

have no idea who this other "West" family is

it's pretty grim reading, to say the least

yr a dad Shakey. do not read about the other West family.

Sound advice.

The West family were more Texas Chainsaw Massacre than Manson.