Tim Burton -- classic or dud?

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i thought i was the only one who thought the first was better than the second

stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 16:57 (twenty years ago) link

YES! I can't think of a director/scorer combo that's been more effective and in tune to each other's vision.

Hitchcock and Herrmann might have something to say about that. Or Leone and Morricone. Or...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:03 (twenty years ago) link

Leone/Morricone is probably my other favorite. There was a time when George Lucas & John Williams were, but as the Fishbone song says "those days are gone".

nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link

i reckon plenty of people that prefer the 2nd batman, never saw the 1st one in a theatre, missing out on the attention to detail in the sets, etc.

xpost

kephm, Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:05 (twenty years ago) link

I havent seen Planet of the Apes, but everything else I really like. Sleepy Hollow was fantastic.

ryan (ryan), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:06 (twenty years ago) link

Tim Burton movies always seem to work better in theory than in execution, save "Ed Wood".

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:28 (twenty years ago) link

But the first Batman had JACK. and PRINCE.

Mandee (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:36 (twenty years ago) link

jack is teh suck though!! (i liked the second one better) (I aslo like tim burton a lot, esp "mars attacks", nightmare before christmas", "beetlejuice", "edward scissorhands" &c. I didn't go to see "planet of the paes er aspes er apesa er apes" {argh coughing jag whilst attempting to type haha} b/c it looked like a load of rub)

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 17:42 (twenty years ago) link

ed wood but esp. edward scissorhands and beeteljuice are great movies...

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:01 (twenty years ago) link

Classic for, if nothing else (and clearly there are other things), Nightmare Before Christmas and Oyster Boy.

luna (luna.c), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:14 (twenty years ago) link

his films have such a great visual style (except for Planet which looks like it could have been made by anyone) but they are so uneven it's frustrating. I don't think I've really liked a film of his since Ed Wood. I'm sure he'll ruin the Willy Wonka remake. As a person, he seems like someone who tries really hard to cultivate his "weird" image and hence comes off as an annoying jerk.

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:15 (twenty years ago) link

Classic: Sleepy Hollow, Beetlejuice, Ed Wood, Mars Attacks, Nightmare Before Christmas, Edward Scissorhands

Dud or Mediocre: everything else

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:22 (twenty years ago) link

i used to really like mars attacks but more for what it wanted to be than for what it is. the ending is classic though.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:30 (twenty years ago) link

edward scissorhands is his finest moment really i repeat

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link

although i wish he would stop using danny elfman who is dud

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link

I remember making all kinds of excuses for POTA, mostly around the fact that the script stank, but I think it's more that he didn't produce it or Sleepy Hollow (which I still liked but didn't love). So it's been seven years since he produced a movie/directed a great movie. But before that, hit after hit after hit.

The Terry Gilliam comparison's pretty interesting: Gilliam worked his way back into being allowed to write his own material after directing Twelve Monkeys/The Fisher King, and then blew it in one film (Fear and Loathing), and became box office poison (Lost in La Mancha), though now he's directing The Brothers Grimm (Heath Ledger/Matt Damon!) and Good Omens, both for next year. I don't know why Tim Burton gets more breaks.

! Ed Wood never got a film/director Oscar Nomination?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:40 (twenty years ago) link

! Ed Wood never got a film/director Oscar Nomination?

Fucking NO. Martin Landau did pick up an Oscar for best supporting actor -- I think deserved, though Samuel Jackson (this was the year of Pulp Fiction, remember) admitted he was sorta bored by Ed Wood and wished he'd won! Can't blame him!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link

ed wood was a huge flop

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link

commercially speaking, thus no oscars

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link

Oh yeah, and Ed Wood isn't on DVD either. I CAN GET ED WOOD'S OWN FILMS ON DVD BUT NOT TIM BURTON'S ED WOOD FILM. Grr.

thus no oscars

As noted, one Oscar.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:44 (twenty years ago) link

i mean no oscars for the film itself, like a directing or best picture award


maybe there are rights complications that have prevented it from being released on dvd?

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:46 (twenty years ago) link

That would be strange -- it's a Touchstone picture, I don't think they have any rights problems to clear with Disney looming over it all.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:47 (twenty years ago) link

it was just a thought, you're probably right.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:48 (twenty years ago) link

It's being released February 3, 2004. Rejoice!

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:48 (twenty years ago) link

Voila

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:49 (twenty years ago) link

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:49 (twenty years ago) link

it's funny how i like that movie and have no interest at all in ed wood himself or his movies

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 18:50 (twenty years ago) link

Ditto.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 November 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
I've got the (cancelled until 2007ish) Ed Wood R1 DVD. I wonder if brother will notice if I just don't give it back to him?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 8 February 2004 00:18 (twenty years ago) link

(cancelled until 2007ish)

ARAGAHDFASDFBAFA.

I think your duty is to ensure good people have access to this fine product.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 February 2004 00:22 (twenty years ago) link

I have no idea how, but I'd be glad to. I've got a Mac and a Superdrive (DVD-R), what do I need to do?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 8 February 2004 00:25 (twenty years ago) link

This is where I am not sure. But I have hunches certain people like Elvis T., if contacted, will give advice.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 8 February 2004 00:29 (twenty years ago) link

Scissorhands and Mars Attacks were great.

Sleepy Hollow was shockingly bad, even from the design point of view, surprisingly.

R the bunged up with jollop of V (Jake Proudlock), Sunday, 8 February 2004 01:54 (twenty years ago) link

Ed Wood is Tim Burtons best film, hands down.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 8 February 2004 02:12 (twenty years ago) link

Tim Burton is even dudder than johnny Depp.

jed_ (jed), Sunday, 8 February 2004 02:51 (twenty years ago) link

Can I ask - has Tim Burton ever collaborated with Tom Waits?

If not, why not?

dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 8 February 2004 04:06 (twenty years ago) link

five years pass...

please don't let him fuck up Maleficent

you have to forgive me (surm), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 15:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Palmer/Gaiman would mop the street with Burton/Carter's asses.

Kylie is a vacant Phifer (kingkongvsgodzilla), Wednesday, 20 January 2010 15:26 (fourteen years ago) link

two months pass...

please don't let him fuck up Maleficent

― you have to forgive me (surm), Wednesday, January 20, 2010 3:17 PM (2 months ago) Bookmark

please don't let Angelina Jolie fuck up Maleficent!

big (surm), Monday, 29 March 2010 02:05 (fourteen years ago) link

nine months pass...
two weeks pass...

I only recently noticed that just about all of this guy's work has been remakes or reimaginings, all processed through the same kooky "Tim Burton, Auteur" filter. And I really, really want to say he's nothing but a big assembly-line hack, but then every few years he does something I like (Mars Attacks, Ed Wood, Sweeney Todd), which makes me think, huh, maybe this guy actually knows what he's doing. Which then in turn makes me think he's even more of a hack, for doing all the hacky stuff, when I know he's capable of better.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 22 January 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link

Two out of three of those were from scripts or source material he didn't write, which may explain something.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 22 January 2011 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link

(And I realize yeah, remakes etc., but he seems to put a more 'personal' stamp on those versus something like Ed Wood in particular -- probably his most non-Burton film in the end. Also about the only one that doesn't have Danny Elfman doing the music; if it wasn't Depp as the star it would stand out even more, but I think it's also one of Depp's best performances, so.)

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 22 January 2011 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah I still think Sweeney is a mediocre take on a brilliant musical, any credit for that movie is Sondheim's imo

Magic Our Maurice! (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 22 January 2011 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link

never saw the musical but the film was really good, and I was prepared to hate it, hating almost everything else burton does these days. but I still always give him a chance, because, like with Sweeney, he sometimes really delivers. but often he's just crap. frustrating. at least he finishes movies, unlike gilliam, though.

akm, Saturday, 22 January 2011 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

is this frankenweenie thing gon be stupid

weingarden by kawhineyscope (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 2 October 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link

well, it is called Frankenweenie

set me on fire RAAAAH (DJP), Tuesday, 2 October 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link

Pre-judge for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE10-Mforlo

Old Lunch, Tuesday, 2 October 2012 18:50 (eleven years ago) link

It's like if Brad Bird decided to do a feature length remake of Family Dog.

The Most Typical and Popular Girl Rider (Crabbits), Tuesday, 2 October 2012 19:03 (eleven years ago) link

meh, 2019

a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 April 2019 03:14 (five years ago) link

In case you failed to see it upthread...

Morbs, you temper your fabled vituperation over the weirdest things.

― WAS ACTING A FOOL AND FELL ON GRILL (Old Lunch), Friday, March 29, 2019 2:06 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 03:36 (five years ago) link

Also golf clap for strawmanning all of the zero people in existence who ever called Tarantino original. Yeeeeesh.

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 03:40 (five years ago) link

i was thinking about this yesterday and its now starting to make more sense to view Disney originals like...broadway musicals or whatever and these remakes as revivals.

fremme nette his simplicitte (darraghmac), Monday, 1 April 2019 09:27 (five years ago) link

revivals which just happen to allow disney to extend the copyright on their properties

mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 09:28 (five years ago) link

thus keeping alive the goose that lays the dollar-crammed eggs

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link

I hope I live long enough to see like the fifth or sixth iteration of a Disney remake where it's just like this crude and barely recognizable rendition of Pinocchio standing in a stark white field for two hours and endlessly repeating 'Hi, I'm Pinocchio!' to the camera from a variety of angles.

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:31 (five years ago) link

Pinocchio (2042): Not as bad as I thought it might be, Pinocchio's enunciation was flawless, and Disney has really upped their game on the presentation of the glaring void in which all of their films are now set. *** + 1/2*

A man of surgery, to remove the metal pellets from my flesh (Old Lunch), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:38 (five years ago) link

My greatest dream is somehow stripping Disney of all their copyrights and filming everyone crying who will be hit hard in the bank balance by this, so I can watch these crying videos everyday for immense sexual pleasure.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 5 April 2019 18:34 (five years ago) link

three years pass...

I can't believe he got Mars Attacks! made. I can't believe he assembled that cast.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 July 2022 02:26 (one year ago) link

really liked it when it came out and it goes up in my estimation every time i revisit, some kind of lunatic masterpiece

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 12 July 2022 02:31 (one year ago) link

that and Ed Wood have become my abiding favorites

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 12 July 2022 02:43 (one year ago) link

i haven't seen it in years but every so often, the phrase "the international sign of the donut" pops into my head

Roz, Tuesday, 12 July 2022 03:00 (one year ago) link

It's definitely more Joe Dante than Tim Burton.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 12 July 2022 03:10 (one year ago) link

four months pass...

Wednesday sucks, right? Is it just me? made it three episodes and decided "nah". the humor doesn't work at all and this cutesy goth thing is so played out.

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Friday, 2 December 2022 23:11 (one year ago) link

i was the opposite- i’m surprised by how much i really enjoy it … like there are a lot of dopey jokes and puns and fan service but the mystery is kinda compelling & i like all the main characters

also there is a great scene where she dances to the Cramps “Goo Goo Muck”

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 2 December 2022 23:18 (one year ago) link

clip here bc it’s truly excellent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2bY2gOBhk

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 2 December 2022 23:20 (one year ago) link


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