GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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i mean it's definitely the gender stuff that matters to me. i think the work/ambition strand is of a piece with that though. it's not like "everybody young is searching" it's more specifically about a paralysis women of a certain privilege experience wrt work, in part because they haven't been acculturated to valuing their own labor, taking making money as a goal, etc.

horseshoe, Friday, 6 April 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

i can see how that would be deeply irritating to some people, but again, i think it's real.

horseshoe, Friday, 6 April 2012 15:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

where she unflinchingly portrays her character's utter humiliation at times in her attempts to connect with dudes, i love that. it doesn't seem punishing, just honest

yeah this is really good and like really the whole point, i mean the show is called 'girls' and i think this is really the best, the most honest and funny, stuff in the movie too? like the maybe cliched 'post-collegiate search for purpose and identity' stuff is p inextricably mixed up in this kind of sexual and romantic flailing? which i mean '2 broke girls exists' but its really dishonest and terrible so

― Lamp, Friday, April 6, 2012 11:08 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this stuff reminds me of some m*mblec*ore flicks (thinking 'hannah takes the stairs'), tho it's played less explicitly & not really for laughs. also, i feel like greta gerwig in that & others rec'd similar crit @ the time (can't act; only cast cuz shes v embracing of nudity, etc)

idk what my point is, just sayin

johnny crunch, Friday, 6 April 2012 15:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just FYI, I will not be "embracing nudity" in BOYS.

og (admrl), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

the other thing is obv the mumblecore ones are lacking the sheen of privilege basically entirely & ppl seem to find them MORE detestable lol

johnny crunch, Friday, 6 April 2012 15:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha im one of the feel ppl on ilx whod got to bat for 'hannah takes the stairs' but i think its a lot more exterior than 'tiny furniture', less interested in hannah as a person than hannah as an idea? its probably guiltier of the kind of post-collegiate ennui cliches as well

horseshoe yah i think its really all of a piece if for no other reason than dunham as a whole is so indivisible the ideas she has about girlhood and adulthood and class and sex are totally bound up in her weird family dynamic and who she is as a person. i think this helps w/ the sort of 'voice of generation' cuz theres lots of different xps/things to relate to in her work but also helps her rise above cliche because she can describe these things in a personal language somewhat free of quotation marks or w/e

Lamp, Friday, 6 April 2012 15:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's more specifically about a paralysis women of a certain privilege experience wrt work, in part because they haven't been acculturated to valuing their own labor, taking making money as a goal, etc.

I weep for them.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

i expect this to be really good. I liked tiny furniture. I'm really impressed with LD, I think she's a great writer and a good director particularly considering how young she was when she made that film.

akm, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

You said that "Girls" was untitled for a long time. I read that a friend had joked that it was the “Entitled Lena Dunham Project.”

He was like, “change one letter!” When I first told him, he thought that I had said “entitled,” and he made me a tiny sign for my door, it was the funniest thing ever, that said the “Entitled Lena Dunham Project.”

Do you think that people think that about you? That you’re entitled?

I’ve definitely heard that critique of the movie, and a little bit of the show, less though since it’s clear that the character is having a financial struggle.

The thing about Tiny Furniture is it was a character who moved home to what looked to be a luxury New York apartment. Although it’s funny, when a friend came over, she said, "It looks a lot nicer in the movie." My DP worked some magic to make the whole thing look whiter, crisper and larger.

But that said, I think that people don’t always love seeing a certain kind of privilege shown on screen, even if the creator is self-aware about it, which I tried to be. I tried to make it clear that this character was not necessarily appreciative of all she’d been given, and that all she’d been given wasn’t necessarily a gift, because it prevented her from having a work ethic and it prevented her from other things.

I hope that there’s room in our society for an exploration of class in that way that goes beyond. I like a movie like Raising Victor Vargas, that’s one version of New York, but I think there’s also room for a movie about the kids who grew up taking too many different kinds of piano and dance lessons in Tribeca. I hope that the artistic landscape can accommodate all of that and that I’ve approached it in a way that’s self-aware enough that people know where I’m coming from. But of course there will always be detractors and I was prepared for that. Sometimes I’m my own detractor.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

lena dunham responds to thread basically

That’s an interesting question. I don’t think that anybody looks at me and says, "she looks amazing and I want to be that lady," but I think that there’s a thing that people trying to present their own experience, there’s a little bit of “who told you you were allowed to do this and why do you think we’re interested?” phenomenon, which I completely understand, although I think that people challenge women more who want to tell their own story.

Nobody challenges why they want to watch Larry David at lunch. You know why you want to watch Larry David at lunch: Cause he’s fucking hilarious and it’s amazing to watch him at lunch. You don’t care that he’s mean to his friends and lives in a giant house, it’s just interesting, and I think that women often have to make more excuses for why they want to portray themselves. I used to always apologize, to say, I’m so sorry for bringing misogyny up, but I’m going to stop apologizing for bringing it up, because we all know it’s real.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Love the creative class entitlement that assumes everyone can watch tv during lunch

#yolo contendere (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

hah

johnny crunch, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

I weep for them.

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, April 6, 2012 12:28 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

doth protest

lag∞n, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

Love the creative class entitlement that assumes everyone can watch tv during lunch

uh

Lamp, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

can't everybody watch tv on their phones now? i might be wrong about this, still have a flip phone.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

fuckin chinese hipster factory cafeteria

lag∞n, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am at least w/ her abt the show "baggage", as described, sounds incredible

johnny crunch, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha i just thought in the intvw jordan quotes shes talking about how like half of 'curb your enthusiams' scenes take place over lunch at expensive restaurants not about her eating lunch while she watches the show

Lamp, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

that is what she was talking about

preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

the "half of 'curb your enthusiams' scenes take place over lunch at expensive restaurants" part

preternatural concepts concerning variances in sound and texture (contenderizer), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha i guess that makes more sense!

#yolo contendere (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Love the creative class entitlement that assumes everyone can watch tv during lunch
― #yolo contendere (Whiney G. Weingarten)

I know you're trolling but i think the implication is "watch Larry David at lunch", not you're at lunch watching the show
xp fuck it nevermind

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol whiney

max, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw, whiney, i think it might mean that larry's at lunch not the viewer, ever thought of that

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol i thought whiney was joking

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

"I hope that there’s room in our society for an exploration of class in that way that goes beyond. I like a movie like Raising Victor Vargas, that’s one version of New York, but I think there’s also room for a movie about the kids who grew up taking too many different kinds of piano and dance lessons in Tribeca. I hope that the artistic landscape can accommodate all of that and that I’ve approached it in a way that’s self-aware enough that people know where I’m coming from. But of course there will always be detractors and I was prepared for that. Sometimes I’m my own detractor."

^^^ this is sort of a funny thing to say -- its absolutely true but its weird that she doesnt acknowledge that the artistic landscape of new york stories is probably more biased towards the too-many-lessons kids than the victor vargases of the world. which shd be apparent in part because the first example of a movie about non-privileged kids in nyc she can think of is like 10 years old

max, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait a second, what if it's LARRY at lunch and not the viewer
makes u think

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I hope that there’s room in our society for an exploration of class in that way that goes beyond. I like a movie like Raising Victor Vargas, that’s one version of New York, but I think there’s also room for a movie about the kids who grew up taking too many different kinds of piano and dance lessons in Tribeca. I hope that the artistic landscape can accommodate all of that and that I’ve approached it in a way that’s self-aware enough that people know where I’m coming from. But of course there will always be detractors and I was prepared for that. Sometimes I’m my own detractor.

See, I think this just comes down to a disagreement about storytelling. Too many piano and dance lessons? Rich people are playing life on God Mode, and narrative without risk is pretty dull IMO.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

its about larry lunchin i think right

akm, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0997079/

40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

milo do you only watch action movies or something

max, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

Larries Who Lunch

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

no, because most action movies are crap because the hero is playing on God Mode

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

iddqed

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyone else getting Parker Lewis Can't Lose flashbacks right now?

some dude, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

milo do you only watch action movies or something

― max, Friday, April 6, 2012 1:34 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its funny cause i was thinking the actual popular movies re new york are prob mostly abt people killing each other and the mafia - this discussion is abt a p niche product that prob mostly appeals to people of similar background

lag∞n, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

nb: I didn't think Girls was funny, either, or I'd cut it a lot more slack. It read as painfully awkward melodrama to me more than comedy.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

you mean tiny furniture?

max, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is just off the top of my head, here’s what I would put in my start pack currently, if I was trying to make everybody feel the inside of my brain: I’d probably put Ariel, the Sylvia Plath book of poems, I’d put the new Sheila Heti novel, How Should a Person Be, I’d put Wallflower at the Orgy by Nora Ephron. Those would be my three books. I’d put Gilda Live, the documentary of Gilda directed by Mike Nichols, I’d put An Unmarried Woman, and I’d put in Clueless and then maybe like one Sufjan Stevens for feeling feelings too: Seven Swans. Then I’m just gonna throw Betty Davis—Miles Davis’s wife Betty Davis, not the disco crazy nutbag singer—I’d put her cd in there. Right now, if I was like, I want you to feel my feelings, I’d hand you those things.

are we totally sure she's not on ilx already?

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

er, yeah, because I was going to say that I'm giving Girls a shot because it might really be funny

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

surfin stevens and betty davis and gilda radner are faves of mine too, maybe I'M oh wait i fucking hate nora ephron

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i dont know man i think if "actual lives are at stake" is for an important characteristic of good art i dont think were ever going to agree about art period let alone an hbo show

max, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I didn't say "actual lives are at stake," I said risk.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

conflict is importnat to narrative, what kind of protagonist do u have

lag∞n, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

give Girls til the end of season 1 to see if they resolve any conflicts with physical violence imo

some dude, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

what are we talking about then? is it that emotional/psychological 'risk' arent important enough?

max, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

a story can be seen as a mountain climbing your hero will have to overcome many obsitcles one is a huge rock in the way

lag∞n, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

I laughed at the younger sister, the white cabinets, the explanation of fucking in a pipe.

I did pretty much hate all the dudes in the movie to a degree that bothered me.

og (admrl), Friday, 6 April 2012 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink


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