Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (697 of them)

Earthbound & Mother 3 both well-written, you can count on me to parrot that anywhere.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 05:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

the last express is better than agatha christie (but this is a once-in-a-decade game, for the most part yeah even/especially the games lauded for their writing do not have very good writing)

their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Friday, 6 April 2012 05:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

agreed on mother/earthbound, very sweet yet haunting games

last express was pretty damn cool, especially because of the way the action happens regardless of what you're doing, and how the game itself was designed around this real-time story with the rewindable clock and such

planescape: torment is legendary, though it could be the nostalgia talking... i haven't played it in about ten years. but i loved the plot/characters, and there was a beastly amount of sheer high-quality text in it

shadow of destiny has all the hallmarks of crappy video game writing - crap dialogue, shallow characters, environments, etc., and as a game it's not very good. but the plot structure is pretty unique and magnificent. basically the concept behind the game is that you keep getting murdered, and given the chance to rewind/alter your destiny, but of course things keep going wrong. then there's time travel involved and a whole bunch of different people and timelines start getting messed with, and a crap load of endings before you get the "true" one that ties everything together. but i'm a sucker for Groundhog Day-type plots

also, not as serious, but i think the comedy writing in the 90s Lucasarts games is very high quality, not just the dialogue but the creativity and general wackiness involved in the puzzles

i see the point there that the writing should be secondary to the gameplay, in general, though it shouldn't mean it should be sacrificed altogether...

Nhex, Friday, 6 April 2012 06:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Like with Grim Fandango and Tim Schafer, Planescape cemented Chris Avellone's legacy forever. I got at least one other Ilxor in this thread to play the game just by mentioned that Sheena Easton voiced the hot chick love interest in the game.

Spleen of Hearts (kingfish), Friday, 6 April 2012 07:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i was about to point to Mother 3 as being incredibly well written, even before seeing abbott's post

ciderpress, Friday, 6 April 2012 13:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Planescape: Torment's real genius doesn't even start until you pump tons of points into the Nameless One's intelligence and his dialogue choices become ridiculous

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 13:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Shigesato Itoi who wrote the Mother games is actual proper writer though, isn't he? (also the dad in Totoro!)
The best written games do tend to be the "show don't tell" ones though like Portal, exposition through cutscenes needs to die

zappi, Friday, 6 April 2012 13:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

Arkham City was written by Paul Dini, the creator of Harley Quinn, which makes the treatment of her by the story an extra layer of creepy to me

also before this thread, I didn't notice the sexism of AC as being overt and off-putting, mostly because I spent most of my time leaping off of buildings and shouting "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" at the television

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 13:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think you mean "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I'M RACIST"

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 14:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

I will admit that Batman shouting "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I'M RACIST" when he leaps off of buildings in AC would make this my favorite game of all time

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 14:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

let's get ZS on the phone and make this happen

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 14:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

The best written games do tend to be the "show don't tell" ones though like Portal, exposition through cutscenes needs to die

yes, yes, YES.

some good good examples of well-written games that I hadn't thought of. a definite 'yes' to earthbound (esp. bc a lot of the good stuff here happens while bumbling around and talking to incidental characters - it's videogamey and not just blindly aping the style of books/films), haven't played mother 3, and was considering grim fandango. it impressed me heavily at the time but it's been so long that I honestly can't say anymore.

I do think it's telling that we've only come up with only a handful of games but I think everyone is in agreement that these games are the exception (and a minor one at that) and not the rule anyway.

(⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

also, wow @ itoi being the dad in totoro!

(⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

Mother 3 much better written than Mother 2/Earthbound IMO.
Wld argue all the Phoenix Wright games were well-written, funny and sometimes suspenseful. Good female characters in those, too! Though not without some vid game yuckiness eg Trucy's magic panties.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh videogamepanties

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahaha

(⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

feel that Bungie's games, esp. Marathon, are usually well-written although obv a tremendous dearth of female characters

dayo, Friday, 6 April 2012 15:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

a big factor that hasn't been directly mentioned yet is JAPAN. Japan is a sexist society and most of their art also includes that. and their video games make up a big part of the market.

the acquisition and practice of music is unfavourable to the health of (abanana), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:25 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha i have the feeling that the fallout games would be better if there was more racism and sexism in them! mostly because i have the cynical feeling that if a 50's dreamworld collapsed into nuclear terror things would get racialist and bigman-dominated really quickly. you get a few 'bad pimp' characters here and there, and some evil psycho rapist villains, and there's the lingering presence of bigotry against ghouls which kind of stands in for other kids of prejudice.

but really there are moments when i felt like the game's unspoken racial equality and gay-positivity felt like, idk, controversy avoidance more than anything? maybe i'm too deep in the liberal bubble.

the fallout world is free of the the kind of hatefulness we see irl. people want to kill each other but not for the reasons people want to kill each other now, if that makes sense.

goole, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's where things get dicey. when to be culturally tolerant means tolerating bigotry/sexism/etc. xpost

bnw, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

That cooking mama comic would be a lot funnier if they didn't have her getting beat the fuck up in it, what the hell.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Plus it activates the ILX/grad school-induced part of my brain that wants to sneer at its unsophisticated understanding of 'power structures.'
But anyway lol, the punchline is: submission by violence.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Plus there is the reactionary 'modern Bust magazine is half about crafting feminist' part of my brain that says wtf is wrong w/being a cooking, crafting mama anyway. That after I libeled those Imagine Girlz Makeup games.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I thought cooking mama is a fun game; I like chopping daikon irl and on vid games.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

ALSO I think it's wrong to say "JAPAN is sexist and that's the big factor," U.S. and Japan not in some kind of sexism contest, and if they were I don't honestly know who would win. U.S. is sexist too and to blame all this on Japan and not the ppl in the U.S. buying/supporting/etc this seems....not "casually racist," but...let me dial up Momus here, he would have some things to say about this.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't play many japanese games, doesn't seem that relevant to me.

the loci of video game sexism that i think of like penny arcade are US of A

goole, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Japan being sexist is a big factor on Japanese games being sexist. I am not commenting on games from other countries there.

the acquisition and practice of music is unfavourable to the health of (abanana), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think that comic is more casually racist/sexist than Cooking Mama, is what I'm saying.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

but really there are moments when i felt like the game's unspoken racial equality and gay-positivity felt like, idk, controversy avoidance more than anything? maybe i'm too deep in the liberal bubble.

― goole, Friday, April 6, 2012 12:27 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

i dont think its controversy avoidance so much as a conscious attempt to go against the grain! it certainly caused more controversy than if there hadn't been any gay characters in it at all. je sawyer wrote something cool on this topic:

http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2011/06/platonic-forms-of-marginalized.html

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

holy lol

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

gamers are so smart

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha damn ppl are so ignorant

i guess what i'm trying to say is, the game would have felt more real to me, and braver, if there was NOT ONLY a great gay character like arcade gannon, but also some asshole who's like "what are you doing rolling around with this faggot?" i can't fully understand why there wasn't tho

iirc there were some sublimated hints here and there that people think the Legion is a bunch of angry gays, right?

(i'll have to read that sawyer piece)

goole, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

veronica mentions her ex-girlfriend's Brotherhood of Steel family not looking kindly on their relationship

their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

what i dig in fallout are the NCR recruitment posters that say "LADIES! EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT SERVES IS A SLAP ACROSS CAESAR'S FACE!"

their private gesture for bison (difficult listening hour), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

"the fallout world is free of the the kind of hatefulness we see irl. people want to kill each other but not for the reasons people want to kill each other now, if that makes sense."

i disagree that it is a gamemaker's responsibility to provide the hatefulness. that's the gamer's job.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

abbs otm

dayo, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah agreed.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, lets dial up momus so he can justify his yellow fever over submissive women to us.

bnw, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

why did momus stop posting here

these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

he was banned iirc

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

Too busy jacking it onto his girlfriend's face.

It's true; dude used to post about that unreservedly.

xp or that too

Spleen of Hearts (kingfish), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw there are crazy japanese rape games that are not sold in the US iirc. so good luck putting that on the American consumer.

bnw, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Part of why the racist/sexist bits can get downplayed in the Fallout world is that you have a clear external enemy that everybody could project their animus against: super mutants and ghouls. With supermutants running around actively trying to ice normals, and rabid ghouls serving in the place of zombies, those should easily fill the slot of "shit to fear & hate" before all the humans get around to going at other humans.

I hope in the upcoming Wasteland 2 kickstarter project, they keep a satirical or just funny tone to everything, only basing it on 80s ideas instead of post-war/pre-cuban-missile-crisis ones

Spleen of Hearts (kingfish), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

are japan rape games really chart toppers though? i really think japan's cultural influence on video games esp w/r/t nintendo is more infantilization (and therefore inherently less racist, less sexist) there's really no way around being disgusting if you want games that are more "mature". if they're handled poorly, they're going to be disgusting, and even if they're handled well, they're still going to be disgusting.

Philip Nunez, Friday, 6 April 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I guess the only solution is to start importing vid games from all the world's many sexually progressive, wholly egalitarian countries.

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

utopiastan's video games are totally awesome

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Friday, 6 April 2012 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

tbh if I lived in that country I wouldn't need the numbing escape of vid games

and i don't even care, similar to how a badass would respond (Abbbottt), Friday, 6 April 2012 19:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol abbs otm again

goole, Friday, 6 April 2012 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

i really think japan's cultural influence on video games esp w/r/t nintendo is more infantilization (and therefore inherently less racist, less sexist)

are you fucking kidding me

do you not really remember, for example, Barrett in FFVII, or all of the grossly exaggerated Italianisms from the Mario games that I posted upthread, or this:

oh no! SPANKING VIDEO GAME! oh no!

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Friday, 6 April 2012 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.