GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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I think she's more self-aware than people who offer that criticism realize

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think she is sorta cute and seems fun and smart

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

"WKIW", as I believe you say

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Like the scene where she has the big argument with her mother and she's all "I'm 22 and i just graduated and i got my first job". I have to believe that was somewhat tongue in cheek

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think it was, or that the entire movie was one big self-aware joke at the expense of overprivileged twentysomethings... but I'm not sure that it would improve things had that been her intention.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like how the friend from ohio felt like a protagonist that wandered in from some other (slightly more conventional) movie

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's another thing. She tells her friend a day before she moves to New York that she's not going to move in with her, avoids all her calls, blows her off at the art thing cos that dude turns up etc. It has to be a joke, right?

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk it's all part & parcel of being an actual horrible, spoiled 20-something

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

the character, not lena i mean

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think there was a degree of self-awareness on display in Tiny Furniture, but probably not the degree of self-awareness that she might've had if she'd waited a couple more years to make it.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Which is a lot of why I'm open to Girls being more "my thing".

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

its not a "joke" but it is "self-aware"

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but she didn't. She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

xxp

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, she was self-aware enough to not portray her character as a completely sympathetic protagonist (see: the treatment of her friend from Ohio) but I don't know that she was as aware of her character's/her own level of privilege as I would've liked.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's certainly no less self-aware than you might hope/expect given the age and status of the filmmaker.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why does she have to apologize to you for being rich

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never really understand the "ugh, why would i want to watch something about rich people" criticism. I like to watch things about all kinds of people. I'm not rich btw

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

That being the case, I almost wish it had been less self-aware and more just a document of 23/24-ness. She probably had more awareness of how ridiculous people are at that age than most people do when they actually are that age, but it still didn't seem like a terribly high level of awareness.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

am i automatically supposed to give a shit about poor people but not about rich people

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've also heard the opposite argument, the why-make-art-out-of-other-people's poverty argument that seems to suggest ALL films should be about people who are at LEAST of the same social status as the filmmaker/potential audience, which is deeply weird.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's interesting that a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege translates to some as a demand for an apology or a lack of desire to see a movie about rich people. Kinda not the same thing at all.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think its really 'self-aware' but not entirely self-critical, like these are the worst impulses and decisions and stuff but its not about how terrible its just like, this is how it is

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

OTM. Although the attempt might be horrifyingly absorbing.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average. she leaps head on into being working poor. Having the puffy white cloud of conditional support beneath you is nice, but her story seems to be about what happens when you've always had gentle hands carrying you everywhere and then the palanquin stops and you gotta figure out how to be a grown up.
the "I feel like I'm entering a really exiting period in my life right now" / "What are you talking about? Everything you own is in garbage bags on my kitchen floor" joke is very much dead on with my experience during that time and feels pretty real. sure it's privileged, but she's hyperaware of it and seems to be primed to make good stories within that space

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege

i mean i think there are lots of parts of 'tiny furniture'/what ive seen of 'girls' thats really aware of how privileged some of the characters are but they maybe still dont know what that means, how they should deal with their comparative privilege not knowing the right tone to strike or pose to take or w/e like knowing w/o really understanding, being 22

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

^

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

as a guy who DID move back home with his parents after college i suspect i'll find things to sympathize with here

y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think that it's about rich vs. poor, it's about the stakes being so small that Tiny Furniture/Lost In Translation/etc. wind up being about "this is how it is" for the overprivileged. Which is just not a very interesting story to tell.

I loved 'Wendy & Lucy,' which is also kind of "this is how it is" (you could criticize Michelle Williams's character's choices and how it all could have been easily avoided, etc.) but there's real shit going on there.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average.

Gotta call bullshit if you're talking about Tiny Furniture.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

(will totally cop to being a Stalinist about the wealthy, fwiw)

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I will allow for the possibility that I didn't particularly care for the movie in large part because it's so grueling to watch people in their early 20s wrestle with the inherent douchebaggery of being in one's early 20s.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Have said elsewhere that my response to Metropolitan after 30 minutes was "nuke them all from orbit," Tiny Furniture was not this bad.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's about the stakes being so small

'what is a life worth?'

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

I get your point max but I guess it really depends on how much the filmmaker has a public presence that forms part of the conversation around the film. Obviously with LD that is a factor, but not every artist fits neatly into some social or economic type and it always seems like a much bigger deal than it should be. If you only make work about who you are and where you are from, you can easily turn that into an examination of identity or you can just come across as totally self-absorbed. I think it is to Lena Dunham's credit that folks ITT seem split on that question.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

"anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average."
basing this on the promo language where she asks her parents for 1100 a month for the next two years to get on her feet and they straight up laugh at her; the rich would shrug and put up with that shit methinks
anyways, i'm talking about a show I haven't seen yet; I should shut up until I see the pilot.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

I loved 'Wendy & Lucy,' which is also kind of "this is how it is" (you could criticize Michelle Williams's character's choices and how it all could have been easily avoided, etc.) but there's real shit going on there.

Didn't love W&L, but otherwise this is OTM.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

in any case, she is hella primed to be A BIG THING and a VOICE OF THE MILLENNIAL GENERATION and i am curious to see how she/this holds up to broad scrutiny
anything's better than miranda fucking july

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

OTM

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

TRUTH. BOMB.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don't know enough about Kelly Reichardt to know if she has experience of being young and broke in nu-recession America, but I'm going to assume not.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

I get your point max but I guess it really depends on how much the filmmaker has a public presence that forms part of the conversation around the film. Obviously with LD that is a factor, but not every artist fits neatly into some social or economic type and it always seems like a much bigger deal than it should be. If you only make work about who you are and where you are from, you can easily turn that into an examination of identity or you can just come across as totally self-absorbed. I think it is to Lena Dunham's credit that folks ITT seem split on that question.

― og (admrl), Thursday, April 5, 2012 2:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yeah i agree with this

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is Louis cK "richer" than Lena Dunham? Is he really more "self-aware" or is he just much harder on himself? He's also much older of course and balder and fatter

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

louis ck is now hella rich
also balder fatter and more penis endowed

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

why the pootie tang royalties alone

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

He certainly doesn't portray himself as being rich though

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Endowed him with more penis?

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

more penis than lena presumably

doubling back on that promo joke, i love that it looks like her parents have taken her out to dinner to tell her the support teat has been tapped; that's such a privilege moment.
some of my redneck friends just came home and found their shit in bags by the trailer park door and the folks said happy birthday and good luck out there

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

He certainly doesn't portray himself as being rich though

In the first season when the school bus breaks down he gets each kid their own limo.

polyphonic, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha, forgot about that

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

In other words "why are you poking your nose around in this, asshole?"

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 19:54 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Oh wait, I know why it matters, because as a prominent Oberlin student she is part of the larger SJW conspiracy to cover up false rape accusations against people who don't exist.

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:02 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Well, there is a person's guilt and innocence and reputation at stake. Dunham didn't use a pseudonym for the rapist and he was quickly found online. Side with and help the victim always, but to say "the truth is irrelevant" seems messed up to me, and if it doesn't to you, i want to know why because like i said, i am most likely wrong and ignorant. in context, she's (the student) not referring just to this case - she's talking about sexual assault and rape on campus in general. i'm not begrudging her or berating her, it doesn't even matter who said it, it's the quote itself that took me by surprise and i'm just seeing if anyone feels the same way, so i can understand it properly, if it has any merit at all, which is why i posted in here in the first place.

ET sippin the wig (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:22 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

sorry for writing in circles - i want to learn about something that's totally out of my depth + experience because i am probably wrong, thats all

ET sippin the wig (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:23 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

It's a questionable quote from an untrustworthy source, it has zero importance or relevance.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:29 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

"he" wasn't quickly found online, some guy named Barry who otherwise bore little resemblance to the person Dunham named (as Nolte himself is adamant to point out!) was found online

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:34 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

she's not talking about "sexual assault and rape on campus in general" she's talking about a case where no real person has been named and no charges have been sought, no suspects have even been brought in, no report has been made. The truth doesn't matter in the sense that nothing is at stake other than one man's quest to prove that Lena Dunham is a lying liar and in turn cast doubt on whether women actually get raped much.

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:36 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

at least that's what I can glean based on what sounds like a garbled quote from "memory" and "notes"

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:37 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

i completely agree, and i'm still mystified why conservative men in particular LOVE TO HATE lena dunham, clearly because she's threatening to them in some way, which rules. sorry to harp on the quote, i didn't know if that was the consensus.

ET sippin the wig (spazzmatazz), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:45 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

glad you "learned" something today but kinda rmde @ you right now

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:46 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

just an aside: LD wrote that her gynecologist used to pitch for the Mets, and no ex-Met pitchers are in that field.

things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:49 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

lol

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:57 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I feel like there is a joke in there but not one I want to come up with let alone make

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 20:58 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Maybe it was Doctor K

18th Century Celebrity WS of Shame (Hurting 2), Thursday, 4 December 2014 21:04 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

It's Doc Gooden, but not that Doc Gooden.

Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 4 December 2014 21:26 (2 weeks ago) Permalink


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