GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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at least i have seen it on the big screen b4 tho

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

twice actually!

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

haven't seen any of her stuff, she's doing several days of film 'presenting' at BAM, tonight w/ Whit Stillman.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

i sympathized with most of the characters in tiny furniture?

haha me too

i saw one of the episodes on the weekend it was... idk, im p excited to watch them properly but it was a bit of a mess. theres a lot of ambivalence in general i guess

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tiny Furniture was horrific but she might do okay in a TV format. As long as she's not directing.

Simon H., Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

oops hey i missed surm's posts, sorry.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

some dude OTM about Tiny Furniture's filmmaking, but I also can't find it in myself to give a shit about the problems of an educated rich kid in this hard hard world of moving back into the 'rents multimillion dollar loft.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

still going to give Girls a shot, maybe there will be characters who aren't hateable

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think she's more self-aware than people who offer that criticism realize

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think she is sorta cute and seems fun and smart

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

"WKIW", as I believe you say

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Like the scene where she has the big argument with her mother and she's all "I'm 22 and i just graduated and i got my first job". I have to believe that was somewhat tongue in cheek

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think it was, or that the entire movie was one big self-aware joke at the expense of overprivileged twentysomethings... but I'm not sure that it would improve things had that been her intention.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like how the friend from ohio felt like a protagonist that wandered in from some other (slightly more conventional) movie

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's another thing. She tells her friend a day before she moves to New York that she's not going to move in with her, avoids all her calls, blows her off at the art thing cos that dude turns up etc. It has to be a joke, right?

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk it's all part & parcel of being an actual horrible, spoiled 20-something

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

the character, not lena i mean

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think there was a degree of self-awareness on display in Tiny Furniture, but probably not the degree of self-awareness that she might've had if she'd waited a couple more years to make it.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Which is a lot of why I'm open to Girls being more "my thing".

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

its not a "joke" but it is "self-aware"

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but she didn't. She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

xxp

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, she was self-aware enough to not portray her character as a completely sympathetic protagonist (see: the treatment of her friend from Ohio) but I don't know that she was as aware of her character's/her own level of privilege as I would've liked.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's certainly no less self-aware than you might hope/expect given the age and status of the filmmaker.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why does she have to apologize to you for being rich

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never really understand the "ugh, why would i want to watch something about rich people" criticism. I like to watch things about all kinds of people. I'm not rich btw

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

That being the case, I almost wish it had been less self-aware and more just a document of 23/24-ness. She probably had more awareness of how ridiculous people are at that age than most people do when they actually are that age, but it still didn't seem like a terribly high level of awareness.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

am i automatically supposed to give a shit about poor people but not about rich people

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've also heard the opposite argument, the why-make-art-out-of-other-people's poverty argument that seems to suggest ALL films should be about people who are at LEAST of the same social status as the filmmaker/potential audience, which is deeply weird.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's interesting that a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege translates to some as a demand for an apology or a lack of desire to see a movie about rich people. Kinda not the same thing at all.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think its really 'self-aware' but not entirely self-critical, like these are the worst impulses and decisions and stuff but its not about how terrible its just like, this is how it is

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

OTM. Although the attempt might be horrifyingly absorbing.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average. she leaps head on into being working poor. Having the puffy white cloud of conditional support beneath you is nice, but her story seems to be about what happens when you've always had gentle hands carrying you everywhere and then the palanquin stops and you gotta figure out how to be a grown up.
the "I feel like I'm entering a really exiting period in my life right now" / "What are you talking about? Everything you own is in garbage bags on my kitchen floor" joke is very much dead on with my experience during that time and feels pretty real. sure it's privileged, but she's hyperaware of it and seems to be primed to make good stories within that space

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege

i mean i think there are lots of parts of 'tiny furniture'/what ive seen of 'girls' thats really aware of how privileged some of the characters are but they maybe still dont know what that means, how they should deal with their comparative privilege not knowing the right tone to strike or pose to take or w/e like knowing w/o really understanding, being 22

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

^

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

as a guy who DID move back home with his parents after college i suspect i'll find things to sympathize with here

y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think that it's about rich vs. poor, it's about the stakes being so small that Tiny Furniture/Lost In Translation/etc. wind up being about "this is how it is" for the overprivileged. Which is just not a very interesting story to tell.

I loved 'Wendy & Lucy,' which is also kind of "this is how it is" (you could criticize Michelle Williams's character's choices and how it all could have been easily avoided, etc.) but there's real shit going on there.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average.

Gotta call bullshit if you're talking about Tiny Furniture.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

(will totally cop to being a Stalinist about the wealthy, fwiw)

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

I will allow for the possibility that I didn't particularly care for the movie in large part because it's so grueling to watch people in their early 20s wrestle with the inherent douchebaggery of being in one's early 20s.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Have said elsewhere that my response to Metropolitan after 30 minutes was "nuke them all from orbit," Tiny Furniture was not this bad.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's about the stakes being so small

'what is a life worth?'

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

I get your point max but I guess it really depends on how much the filmmaker has a public presence that forms part of the conversation around the film. Obviously with LD that is a factor, but not every artist fits neatly into some social or economic type and it always seems like a much bigger deal than it should be. If you only make work about who you are and where you are from, you can easily turn that into an examination of identity or you can just come across as totally self-absorbed. I think it is to Lena Dunham's credit that folks ITT seem split on that question.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

"anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average."
basing this on the promo language where she asks her parents for 1100 a month for the next two years to get on her feet and they straight up laugh at her; the rich would shrug and put up with that shit methinks
anyways, i'm talking about a show I haven't seen yet; I should shut up until I see the pilot.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

I loved 'Wendy & Lucy,' which is also kind of "this is how it is" (you could criticize Michelle Williams's character's choices and how it all could have been easily avoided, etc.) but there's real shit going on there.

Didn't love W&L, but otherwise this is OTM.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

in any case, she is hella primed to be A BIG THING and a VOICE OF THE MILLENNIAL GENERATION and i am curious to see how she/this holds up to broad scrutiny
anything's better than miranda fucking july

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

OTM

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

TRUTH. BOMB.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

Don't know enough about Kelly Reichardt to know if she has experience of being young and broke in nu-recession America, but I'm going to assume not.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

I get your point max but I guess it really depends on how much the filmmaker has a public presence that forms part of the conversation around the film. Obviously with LD that is a factor, but not every artist fits neatly into some social or economic type and it always seems like a much bigger deal than it should be. If you only make work about who you are and where you are from, you can easily turn that into an examination of identity or you can just come across as totally self-absorbed. I think it is to Lena Dunham's credit that folks ITT seem split on that question.

― og (admrl), Thursday, April 5, 2012 2:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yeah i agree with this

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Same as. My first thought was "huh? is it that easy to get a teaching job in the States?"

tayto fan (Michael B), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:15 (Yesterday) Permalink

but there were scenes explaining that at the school she was teaching at they don't even expect her to have a degree in teaching

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel, (stevie), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:16 (Yesterday) Permalink

& she sez she's a substitute I think

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

like, her first interaction w/fran was p expositionary to this effect

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel, (stevie), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

she was a sub at a private school, which is not as hard a job to get. Also, I liked Fran, and I also liked the very simple way he just excused himself from the story and, presumably, the show.

Not disliking this series as much as everyone else, I think it's fine. I also like Togetherness a lot, which admittedly is married-people-mid-life-crisis territory and by default not exactly groundbreaking, but it has some pretty rough moments of truth. Also I have a mad crush on the woman from Heavenly Creatures who plays Michelle.

akm, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:35 (Yesterday) Permalink

still really enjoying this show, too. and togetherness feels like 30something to me, in a good way (note: i have not really watched 30something since I was a kid in the 80s)

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel, (stevie), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:44 (Yesterday) Permalink

i'm dreading if they make something of jessa saying shes still in love w/ ace or whatever. that really felt like a misstep to me, as did Hannah minimizing the taxi hitting the old lady

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 14:50 (Yesterday) Permalink

It was a good Girls ep. Liked Fran too-- nice curveball, turned out to be a perfectly good date. Actually one interesting and unusual thing about this show is that the guest characters are often (intentionally depicted as) more likable than the main characters.

Jessa's an especially awful person this season, isn't she.

It's interesting how unlikability (antipathy) and likability (empathy)-- often leaning to the former-- are so intricately threaded in the characters on Girls, not just from ep to ep but line to line, moment to moment. An experience well-illustrated by Hannah's dizzied reaction to Mimi-Lee (full of shit & manipulative/ self-aware & sweet/ both at once?).

drash, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:08 (Yesterday) Permalink

Jessa is just straight up evil at this stage. I dont know where her character is going.

tayto fan (Michael B), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:14 (Yesterday) Permalink

what's with this btw? is this an NY thing we're not privy to?

piscesx, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:16 (Yesterday) Permalink

douchebaggery

i blow goat farts, aka garts for a living (waterface), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:25 (Yesterday) Permalink

just more contrived bullshit tbh

Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

i've never seen him as anything but Spock and i'm not sure i'd have even recognised him tbh.

piscesx, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:31 (Yesterday) Permalink

it's quinto right? or isn't it? honestly wasn't sure

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:33 (Yesterday) Permalink

it's insane that people are Looking-bashing in here, this season > the current season of Girls and certainly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Togetherness, did you guys all give up after a couple early episodes or what?

Simon H., Wednesday, 4 March 2015 15:42 (Yesterday) Permalink

seriously gtfo with Togetherness, it's Sundance Jury Prize: The Series.

Simon H., Wednesday, 4 March 2015 16:09 (Yesterday) Permalink

Simon H OTM with both his ranking of HBO's Sunday night ennui series and also with his hatred of Togetherness

Tay-Tay Brooklynpants (Murgatroid), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 16:36 (Yesterday) Permalink

I like Looking. Probably “care” more about those characters than any in the other two shows.

In part because, when I watch Looking, I experience the characters as the characters. When I watch the other two, I too often see primarily the actors playing the characters, laboriously acting out a script, the seams of which I notice.

And I don’t think this is due to a genre difference in realism or whatever; when I watch e.g. Broad City or Sunny in Philadelphia, I also primarily experience and enjoy those characters as the characters. This is particularly a problem with Looking for me, “Sundance Jury Prize” otm.

drash, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 16:59 (Yesterday) Permalink

edit: particularly a problem with Togetherness for me

drash, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 17:03 (Yesterday) Permalink

not a problem for me, but maybe cuz I was totally unfamiliar with all the actors in Togetherness (apart from the Heavenly Creatures gal)

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 17:09 (Yesterday) Permalink

True, might have something to do with familiarity with the actors in Togetherness and off-screen celeb personae of the actors in Girls. But I don't think it's just that (for me).

drash, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 17:18 (Yesterday) Permalink

Best episode of the series I think. I hope they keep Mimi-Rose around. She has the right likable/annoying balance that the others lost a long time ago, although this is the first time in ages that I've really rooted for Hannah. Ace is a fine addition to the show's long tradition of absurd, posturing douchebags.

Minaj moron (Re-Make/Re-Model), Thursday, 5 March 2015 18:10 (2 hours ago) Permalink

yeah Desi, Booth Jonathon, whatever Richard E. Grant's character was named. Adam, to some extent

Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 March 2015 18:17 (1 hour ago) Permalink


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