GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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at least i have seen it on the big screen b4 tho

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:24 (four years ago) Permalink

twice actually!

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:25 (four years ago) Permalink

haven't seen any of her stuff, she's doing several days of film 'presenting' at BAM, tonight w/ Whit Stillman.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:26 (four years ago) Permalink

i sympathized with most of the characters in tiny furniture?

haha me too

i saw one of the episodes on the weekend it was... idk, im p excited to watch them properly but it was a bit of a mess. theres a lot of ambivalence in general i guess

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:27 (four years ago) Permalink

Tiny Furniture was horrific but she might do okay in a TV format. As long as she's not directing.

Simon H., Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:30 (four years ago) Permalink

oops hey i missed surm's posts, sorry.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:34 (four years ago) Permalink

some dude OTM about Tiny Furniture's filmmaking, but I also can't find it in myself to give a shit about the problems of an educated rich kid in this hard hard world of moving back into the 'rents multimillion dollar loft.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:27 (four years ago) Permalink

still going to give Girls a shot, maybe there will be characters who aren't hateable

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:28 (four years ago) Permalink

I think she's more self-aware than people who offer that criticism realize

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:30 (four years ago) Permalink

I think she is sorta cute and seems fun and smart

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:31 (four years ago) Permalink

"WKIW", as I believe you say

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:32 (four years ago) Permalink

Like the scene where she has the big argument with her mother and she's all "I'm 22 and i just graduated and i got my first job". I have to believe that was somewhat tongue in cheek

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:34 (four years ago) Permalink

I don't think it was, or that the entire movie was one big self-aware joke at the expense of overprivileged twentysomethings... but I'm not sure that it would improve things had that been her intention.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:36 (four years ago) Permalink

i like how the friend from ohio felt like a protagonist that wandered in from some other (slightly more conventional) movie

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:38 (four years ago) Permalink

That's another thing. She tells her friend a day before she moves to New York that she's not going to move in with her, avoids all her calls, blows her off at the art thing cos that dude turns up etc. It has to be a joke, right?

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:40 (four years ago) Permalink

idk it's all part & parcel of being an actual horrible, spoiled 20-something

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:41 (four years ago) Permalink

the character, not lena i mean

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (four years ago) Permalink

I think there was a degree of self-awareness on display in Tiny Furniture, but probably not the degree of self-awareness that she might've had if she'd waited a couple more years to make it.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (four years ago) Permalink

Which is a lot of why I'm open to Girls being more "my thing".

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (four years ago) Permalink

its not a "joke" but it is "self-aware"

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (four years ago) Permalink

Yeah but she didn't. She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

xxp

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (four years ago) Permalink

I mean, she was self-aware enough to not portray her character as a completely sympathetic protagonist (see: the treatment of her friend from Ohio) but I don't know that she was as aware of her character's/her own level of privilege as I would've liked.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (four years ago) Permalink

It's certainly no less self-aware than you might hope/expect given the age and status of the filmmaker.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (four years ago) Permalink

Why does she have to apologize to you for being rich

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (four years ago) Permalink

I never really understand the "ugh, why would i want to watch something about rich people" criticism. I like to watch things about all kinds of people. I'm not rich btw

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (four years ago) Permalink

She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

That being the case, I almost wish it had been less self-aware and more just a document of 23/24-ness. She probably had more awareness of how ridiculous people are at that age than most people do when they actually are that age, but it still didn't seem like a terribly high level of awareness.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (four years ago) Permalink

am i automatically supposed to give a shit about poor people but not about rich people

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:48 (four years ago) Permalink

I've also heard the opposite argument, the why-make-art-out-of-other-people's poverty argument that seems to suggest ALL films should be about people who are at LEAST of the same social status as the filmmaker/potential audience, which is deeply weird.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:50 (four years ago) Permalink

It's interesting that a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege translates to some as a demand for an apology or a lack of desire to see a movie about rich people. Kinda not the same thing at all.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:51 (four years ago) Permalink

i think its really 'self-aware' but not entirely self-critical, like these are the worst impulses and decisions and stuff but its not about how terrible its just like, this is how it is

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:52 (four years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:53 (four years ago) Permalink

OTM. Although the attempt might be horrifyingly absorbing.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:54 (four years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average. she leaps head on into being working poor. Having the puffy white cloud of conditional support beneath you is nice, but her story seems to be about what happens when you've always had gentle hands carrying you everywhere and then the palanquin stops and you gotta figure out how to be a grown up.
the "I feel like I'm entering a really exiting period in my life right now" / "What are you talking about? Everything you own is in garbage bags on my kitchen floor" joke is very much dead on with my experience during that time and feels pretty real. sure it's privileged, but she's hyperaware of it and seems to be primed to make good stories within that space

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:55 (four years ago) Permalink

a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege

i mean i think there are lots of parts of 'tiny furniture'/what ive seen of 'girls' thats really aware of how privileged some of the characters are but they maybe still dont know what that means, how they should deal with their comparative privilege not knowing the right tone to strike or pose to take or w/e like knowing w/o really understanding, being 22

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:56 (four years ago) Permalink

^

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:57 (four years ago) Permalink

as a guy who DID move back home with his parents after college i suspect i'll find things to sympathize with here

y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (four years ago) Permalink

I don't think that it's about rich vs. poor, it's about the stakes being so small that Tiny Furniture/Lost In Translation/etc. wind up being about "this is how it is" for the overprivileged. Which is just not a very interesting story to tell.

I loved 'Wendy & Lucy,' which is also kind of "this is how it is" (you could criticize Michelle Williams's character's choices and how it all could have been easily avoided, etc.) but there's real shit going on there.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (four years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average.

Gotta call bullshit if you're talking about Tiny Furniture.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (four years ago) Permalink

(will totally cop to being a Stalinist about the wealthy, fwiw)

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:00 (four years ago) Permalink

I will allow for the possibility that I didn't particularly care for the movie in large part because it's so grueling to watch people in their early 20s wrestle with the inherent douchebaggery of being in one's early 20s.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:00 (four years ago) Permalink

Have said elsewhere that my response to Metropolitan after 30 minutes was "nuke them all from orbit," Tiny Furniture was not this bad.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:01 (four years ago) Permalink

it's about the stakes being so small

'what is a life worth?'

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:01 (four years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

I get your point max but I guess it really depends on how much the filmmaker has a public presence that forms part of the conversation around the film. Obviously with LD that is a factor, but not every artist fits neatly into some social or economic type and it always seems like a much bigger deal than it should be. If you only make work about who you are and where you are from, you can easily turn that into an examination of identity or you can just come across as totally self-absorbed. I think it is to Lena Dunham's credit that folks ITT seem split on that question.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (four years ago) Permalink

"anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average."
basing this on the promo language where she asks her parents for 1100 a month for the next two years to get on her feet and they straight up laugh at her; the rich would shrug and put up with that shit methinks
anyways, i'm talking about a show I haven't seen yet; I should shut up until I see the pilot.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (four years ago) Permalink

I loved 'Wendy & Lucy,' which is also kind of "this is how it is" (you could criticize Michelle Williams's character's choices and how it all could have been easily avoided, etc.) but there's real shit going on there.

Didn't love W&L, but otherwise this is OTM.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:02 (four years ago) Permalink

in any case, she is hella primed to be A BIG THING and a VOICE OF THE MILLENNIAL GENERATION and i am curious to see how she/this holds up to broad scrutiny
anything's better than miranda fucking july

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (four years ago) Permalink

OTM

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (four years ago) Permalink

TRUTH. BOMB.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:03 (four years ago) Permalink

Don't know enough about Kelly Reichardt to know if she has experience of being young and broke in nu-recession America, but I'm going to assume not.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:04 (four years ago) Permalink

I get your point max but I guess it really depends on how much the filmmaker has a public presence that forms part of the conversation around the film. Obviously with LD that is a factor, but not every artist fits neatly into some social or economic type and it always seems like a much bigger deal than it should be. If you only make work about who you are and where you are from, you can easily turn that into an examination of identity or you can just come across as totally self-absorbed. I think it is to Lena Dunham's credit that folks ITT seem split on that question.

― og (admrl), Thursday, April 5, 2012 2:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yeah i agree with this

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 18:05 (four years ago) Permalink

I've given up on this show but my wife still watches it out of morbid curiosity.

surprised Dunham didn't just name the author character "Woody" if she was so intent on being keeping things "subtle" and "ambiguous".

this show went from amusing to awful really fast (ie by the end of season 3)

Οὖτις, Monday, 27 February 2017 17:13 (one month ago) Permalink

idk i think it's funnier now (last season and the first few eps of this season) than it's ever been.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 27 February 2017 17:16 (one month ago) Permalink

yeah i think it's definitely been really funny.

feel like desi is just a pitch perfectly written douchebag. he literally can't do or say anything that isn't absolutely teeth-grindingly awful.

Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Monday, 27 February 2017 17:22 (one month ago) Permalink

also glad it's coming to an end tho, and there hasn't been enough adam (for obvious reasons) in the first 2 episodes - haven't seen the latest ep

Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Monday, 27 February 2017 17:23 (one month ago) Permalink

latest ep is literally Hannah and some dude for the entire ep

Fluffy Saint-Bernard (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, 27 February 2017 18:42 (one month ago) Permalink

yeah and it's very good. as was the similar episode last season

akm, Monday, 27 February 2017 18:44 (one month ago) Permalink

first three eps this season are supposed to be one off stories she's always wanted to tell, according to something i read in a not-entirely-reliable magazine I was working on the other day. the first two eps this season i have been RMDE the first couple of minutes and then really enjoying it. But she's run out of interesting things to do with the central friend group, and that's why every ep so far has felt like a Very Special Episode.

Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Monday, 27 February 2017 19:01 (one month ago) Permalink

Elijah has the odd good line but he doesn't work when give actual storylines, esp that one last year with the bald dude.

Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Monday, 27 February 2017 19:01 (one month ago) Permalink

I really didn't feel much abt this standalone ep other than it is a effective and well done piece of propaganda essentially. also that if I watched this w/o lena acting in it & knowing nothing abt it, I would 1000% know that she made it. & I mean none of that negatively

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 1 March 2017 14:09 (three weeks ago) Permalink

@NickPinkerton
What if Girls S6 ends with Kurt Raab rushing in and, Herr R.-style, dashing everyone's brains out with a candlestick?

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 15:59 (three weeks ago) Permalink

sounds ideal

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 16:11 (three weeks ago) Permalink

my wife is still committed to this but I really do wish this series would end with ever character getting murdered. Preferably by Laird. All plot mechanics point to a standard Apatow domestic bliss ending which uggghhh

Οὖτις, Monday, 20 March 2017 20:26 (one week ago) Permalink

honestly very little about the show has felt very Apatow-ish for a long time. Love (which sucks) feels much closer to his usual shtick.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, 20 March 2017 20:35 (one week ago) Permalink

you don't think this is all headed towards "Adam + Hannah + And Baby Makes Three" territory? Complete w "I know we're crazy and maybe it's a bad idea but we're gonna try cuz we love each other!" resolution?

Οὖτις, Monday, 20 March 2017 20:40 (one week ago) Permalink

I've been enjoying it but yeah I have the sinking feeling that's where it's headed.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 20 March 2017 20:42 (one week ago) Permalink

two things I genuinely lol'd at this season: "he looks like someone from the pacific northwest knitted a man" and Rita Wilson's on-stage musical improvisations

Οὖτις, Monday, 20 March 2017 20:46 (one week ago) Permalink

that's p much it tho

Οὖτις, Monday, 20 March 2017 20:46 (one week ago) Permalink

i liked elijah's "law and order: uti. Dung Dung!"

Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Monday, 20 March 2017 20:50 (one week ago) Permalink

i can't really pinpoint why but every time this show veers from the comedic to the dramatic I just never buy into it. Perhaps because the characters seems like bundles of neuroses a la Seinfeld rather than people.

ryan, Monday, 20 March 2017 21:44 (one week ago) Permalink

yup. every single one would be insufferable irl. treating them as characters that we're supposed to care about is misguided.

Οὖτις, Monday, 20 March 2017 21:51 (one week ago) Permalink

I'd be pals with Ray

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, 20 March 2017 23:53 (one week ago) Permalink

when ray and shoshanna had their little breakfast conversation and ripped on krugman i found them both quite likable and relatable.

over all the characters are hard to care about tho for sure

Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Monday, 20 March 2017 23:54 (one week ago) Permalink

although I'm planning on watching season 3 of transparent this weekend so girls' characters may seem benign by the time I'm done with that

Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Monday, 20 March 2017 23:55 (one week ago) Permalink

season 3 of transparent is a landscape of dickholes but it's a great show

Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Thursday, 23 March 2017 09:35 (five days ago) Permalink


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