Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

also feel like games HAVE to make gamers empathize w/ the game in a way that movies do not - movies can take more risks that way

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Todd Solondz presents: Happiness, the Video Game

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

I always thought Tomb Raider the movie was made just to quiet all the feminist groups that complained about the video game, saying things like "no REAL woman could possibly look like that", well, lo and behold

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Can you give an example of this? I think in many cases, it's more the medium of being presented something as a movie rather than a game making it easier to notice the source material's dodgier aspects.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh man I remember reading an interview with the creators of the first Tomb Raider game where the art director almost verbatim said "you're spending 20 hours staring at this character's bum so it might as well be a nice one"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

there are a few real actresses I'd like to introduce you to

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

casual sexism is pretty accepted in rap music, along with casual homophobia and racism in the form of anti-semitism

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

I remember an interview with the creators of Tomb Raider, a few months before it came out, where they were like "if you're gonna spend the whole game looking at a butt it may as well be a really nice ass, high five broooooooseph *jumping chestbump*"

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

WTF??? Xpost

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

hahahaha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

ha there is probably something to the idea that the minute graphics got past the 8-bit stage the next logical progression was for game designers to think "oh shit now we can model T&A far more accurately"

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

has anybody ever seen Z S and DJP in a room at the same time before

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

boob slider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_Beach_Volleyball

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

... why does my lizard lady have tits.

This thread is comedy username gold

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

wd play all the games with massive shadebobs

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shadebobs&tbm=isch

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

Seriously didn't see that since I'm Zinging it and I'm slow. that interview was apparently very influential for us!

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

The Dead or Alive series spent an inordinate amount of time working on a super accurate physics engine just so they could claim to be the fighting game with the most realistic breast bounces

lol this was xposted by dayo

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's something to the argument that the fleshing-out of things is responsible, and that more sophisticated graphics/sound enables greater racism/sexism, but the dodgier aspects of movies are made dodgier by the movie. it's not as if it somehow revealed ugliness lurking beneath, e.g. casting leguizamo as luigi in super mario movie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

They didn't really say broseph - it was a more innocent time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's some interview w/ the doa creator where he says he cares about the physics so much because he considers all the female characters his daughters or something

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

wait, why is Leguizamo worthy of mention but BOB HOSKINS isn't

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

hoskins transcends race and racism?
i'm pretty sure battleship: the movie is going to contain all sorts of jingoism and boobplay that wasn't inherent in the game.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

IGN: Is there by chance a trampoline game in DOAX2? We think that would be an excellent addition to the mini-games.

Itagaki: So we have to pick from a long list of minigame ideas and I'm pretty sure trampoline minigames were part of the initial list, but we didn't pick it. That's because of the kind of game that DOAX2 is; we have to be really careful not to make it seem vulgar. Certain activities show the women in a negative light.

So it's not so much about bouncing per say. The key to the game is love. When they love the character, how do they feel when they see the character do whatever she's doing? We don't want to make them feel bad.

(Laughter.)

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

GN: It seems like that game is ripe for a wet t-shirt contest.

Itagaki: Well, it becomes the issue of love again.

IGN: So that's too far?

Itagaki: You don't want your girlfriend being seen in a wet T-shirt contest, right?

IGN: No, not mine. But it's OK for me to see other people's girlfriends... (Laughter.)

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:36 (3 years ago) Permalink

btw here is the male figure you get if you set the "body type" dial all the way to its biggest setting on Star Wars: The Old Republic, and then there is the female option at the same chunkiest setting
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6995/000grzxh.jpg

don't know if you guys can see the slight disparity, i mean it is pretty subtle

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:38 (3 years ago) Permalink


sry, am bad at ilx

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

lol Battleship: The Movie is maybe stacking the deck a tiny bit, considering the video game context in which this conversation started

DOA3 is actually the only game I'm embarrassed to own; I bought it because the fighting got good marks (and it was a decent fighting game, if not really comparable to the Big Games) and shortly afterward they announced the beach volleyball game and I basically just wanted to die

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

one thing i can definitely say about saints row 3 is that it is absolutely neutral when it comes to making characters morbidly obese

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

the gameplay footage of Saints Row 3 make it seem to be flat-out insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

also I am lolling pretty hard at SW:TOC's pie disparity

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

it was zung more in laziness than anger but sometimes you seem to be looking for "balance" where i don't see much

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 12 April 2015 09:29 (6 days ago) Permalink

sure GG weren't the original angry white nerds but that hashtag has become a focal point/energizer for most of this "dissent" and the Gawker piece sets out the connections/timeline fairly imo

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 12 April 2015 09:31 (6 days ago) Permalink

Where, exactly, am I looking for "balance" again? I'm just pointing out what the article itself points out (and then ignores) - that this is a pre-existing campaign that was already doing this quite successfully before Gamergate - describing it as 'falling to Gamergate' is just lazy.

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 12 April 2015 09:59 (6 days ago) Permalink

Is your point that these guys would have been successful at hijacking the Hugos even if GamerGate hadn't happened? Because I don't believe that; I think all of these existing groups are using GamerGate as a rallying point and hitching their wagons to it and that this was an arena where the pool was small enough for it to have an impact.

DJP, Sunday, 12 April 2015 11:39 (6 days ago) Permalink

I don't know about that, they got a lot of names on the ballot last year, and the awards were still visibly diverse, I think they were always going to come back strong, and indeed call in help.

As soon as Gamergate started, there was a lot of "Oh shit yeah, this has been happening in science fiction / comics / atheism as well, the SJW have been infiltrating". And I'm sure that when Milo Manara's Spiderwoman cover blew up, which I think was the last thing before that, there was a lot of "Oh shit yeah, this has been happening in science fiction / gaming / atheism as well".

I am not of course saying that no-one who identifies with Gamergate has been pitching in to this. It's just that Gawker's "and the name of the beast is Gamergate" is silly and self-serving.

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 12 April 2015 13:10 (6 days ago) Permalink

I could be wrong, but I feel like the spillover of online tactics into real life is something GG sort of took to a new level. Like now if you want to derail or ruin something (or, worse, someone's life) there are not only established procedures but also a standing pool of people ready to help at the drop of a hashtag. Maybe something like this would have happened, but not as... thoroughly?

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 12 April 2015 13:20 (6 days ago) Permalink

yeah this is what i'm saying, of course it's not the only game in town but it has a level of mass that will bring other hateful internet fucks into its orbit at some point

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 12 April 2015 14:14 (6 days ago) Permalink

Anecdotally it's seems to be the crest of a wave - Anita Sarkeesian has been getting this shit for years. But yeah definitely the weaponisation of it, the way that targets are painted on people and their life turns into a nightmare, is as you say something GG took to a new level.

Though, er, if that is the mark of the beast it seems (from what I've seen) to be absent in this case?

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 12 April 2015 15:29 (6 days ago) Permalink

Well, I mean more in terms of being able to go post a couple of tweets or forum things like "hey guys SJW are over here too!" and suddenly get an army (legion? platoon? not sure of the numbers involved in the sci-fi case) ready to pay $40 to vote a slate of books they haven't read. I mean this obviously crosses over with much older geek impulses - geeks love boycotts and pro-cotts, feels like you're Doing Something for Free Speech without doing anything really.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 12 April 2015 16:09 (6 days ago) Permalink

Oh lord yeah, that's been going on for decades.

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 12 April 2015 19:01 (6 days ago) Permalink

I searched Google Groups for old Chrono Trigger threads and there is stuff from the 90s. Didn't find any mentions of SJW. Wonder what the source for that term is, feels like the new version of "PC police".

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 12 April 2015 22:42 (6 days ago) Permalink

Are you being purposefully obtuse or did you not get that what was implied would be find was a regressive attitude toward gender and race relations, not a direct addressing of politics?

mh, Sunday, 12 April 2015 23:01 (6 days ago) Permalink

I'm not really sure how to address your question, maybe you should try framing it in a way that doesn't sound like an insult.

Anyways the first post I found in my search was a history of alt.games.final-fantasy, which was written by a woman, and doesn't include anything indicative of a regressive atmosphere. I looked at a lot of threads: some were people asking to buy the game, some were people complaining about it being overrated (in 1998!), some people had humorous lists of "10 Signs You Play Too Much Chrono Trigger", I looked around for a good couple of hours, and didn't really find much at all, even off-handed comments. Then again there were far less people on the internet back then, and the barrier to entry was far greater, so it was probably worth your time to use it for constructive purposes or genuine conversations.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 12 April 2015 23:30 (6 days ago) Permalink

Then again there were far less people on the internet back then, and the barrier to entry was far greater, so it was probably worth your time to use it for constructive purposes or genuine conversations.

― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, April 12, 2015 7:30 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ahahahaha
haha
aha
ha

creaks, whines and trife (s.clover), Monday, 13 April 2015 01:02 (5 days ago) Permalink

I can assure you many of us were having completely useless conversations on the internet, even usenet, in 1998.

I assumed you were trying to subtly jibe by acting like you'd find "sjw" on usenet in the 90s

mh, Monday, 13 April 2015 01:48 (5 days ago) Permalink

I was kind of harsh, sorry, man. I feel like I'm reading past your posts sometimes because I know there's some sort of humor I don't get or something I'm missing I should probably wait to respond to until I pick up on.

mh, Monday, 13 April 2015 03:34 (5 days ago) Permalink

Hah np.

I was on BBSes back in the day, but I don't have any recollection at all of the culture of it. Once the internet dropped w AOL et al I stayed away from chatrooms and only did AIM and IRC with friends and people I knew.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 13 April 2015 04:53 (5 days ago) Permalink


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