Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (825 of them)

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

also feel like games HAVE to make gamers empathize w/ the game in a way that movies do not - movies can take more risks that way

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Todd Solondz presents: Happiness, the Video Game

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I always thought Tomb Raider the movie was made just to quiet all the feminist groups that complained about the video game, saying things like "no REAL woman could possibly look like that", well, lo and behold

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Can you give an example of this? I think in many cases, it's more the medium of being presented something as a movie rather than a game making it easier to notice the source material's dodgier aspects.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man I remember reading an interview with the creators of the first Tomb Raider game where the art director almost verbatim said "you're spending 20 hours staring at this character's bum so it might as well be a nice one"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

there are a few real actresses I'd like to introduce you to

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

casual sexism is pretty accepted in rap music, along with casual homophobia and racism in the form of anti-semitism

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I remember an interview with the creators of Tomb Raider, a few months before it came out, where they were like "if you're gonna spend the whole game looking at a butt it may as well be a really nice ass, high five broooooooseph *jumping chestbump*"

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

WTF??? Xpost

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahahaha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha there is probably something to the idea that the minute graphics got past the 8-bit stage the next logical progression was for game designers to think "oh shit now we can model T&A far more accurately"

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

has anybody ever seen Z S and DJP in a room at the same time before

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

boob slider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_Beach_Volleyball

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

... why does my lizard lady have tits.

This thread is comedy username gold

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

wd play all the games with massive shadebobs

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shadebobs&tbm=isch

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Seriously didn't see that since I'm Zinging it and I'm slow. that interview was apparently very influential for us!

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Dead or Alive series spent an inordinate amount of time working on a super accurate physics engine just so they could claim to be the fighting game with the most realistic breast bounces

lol this was xposted by dayo

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's something to the argument that the fleshing-out of things is responsible, and that more sophisticated graphics/sound enables greater racism/sexism, but the dodgier aspects of movies are made dodgier by the movie. it's not as if it somehow revealed ugliness lurking beneath, e.g. casting leguizamo as luigi in super mario movie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

They didn't really say broseph - it was a more innocent time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's some interview w/ the doa creator where he says he cares about the physics so much because he considers all the female characters his daughters or something

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait, why is Leguizamo worthy of mention but BOB HOSKINS isn't

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

hoskins transcends race and racism?
i'm pretty sure battleship: the movie is going to contain all sorts of jingoism and boobplay that wasn't inherent in the game.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

IGN: Is there by chance a trampoline game in DOAX2? We think that would be an excellent addition to the mini-games.

Itagaki: So we have to pick from a long list of minigame ideas and I'm pretty sure trampoline minigames were part of the initial list, but we didn't pick it. That's because of the kind of game that DOAX2 is; we have to be really careful not to make it seem vulgar. Certain activities show the women in a negative light.

So it's not so much about bouncing per say. The key to the game is love. When they love the character, how do they feel when they see the character do whatever she's doing? We don't want to make them feel bad.

(Laughter.)

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

GN: It seems like that game is ripe for a wet t-shirt contest.

Itagaki: Well, it becomes the issue of love again.

IGN: So that's too far?

Itagaki: You don't want your girlfriend being seen in a wet T-shirt contest, right?

IGN: No, not mine. But it's OK for me to see other people's girlfriends... (Laughter.)

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

btw here is the male figure you get if you set the "body type" dial all the way to its biggest setting on Star Wars: The Old Republic, and then there is the female option at the same chunkiest setting
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6995/000grzxh.jpg

don't know if you guys can see the slight disparity, i mean it is pretty subtle

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink


sry, am bad at ilx

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol Battleship: The Movie is maybe stacking the deck a tiny bit, considering the video game context in which this conversation started

DOA3 is actually the only game I'm embarrassed to own; I bought it because the fighting got good marks (and it was a decent fighting game, if not really comparable to the Big Games) and shortly afterward they announced the beach volleyball game and I basically just wanted to die

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

one thing i can definitely say about saints row 3 is that it is absolutely neutral when it comes to making characters morbidly obese

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

the gameplay footage of Saints Row 3 make it seem to be flat-out insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

also I am lolling pretty hard at SW:TOC's pie disparity

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

And just zero language for talking about rights or privilege that isn't straight out of a Republican handbook or something - and this is in a group which I imagine (?) to be statistically more educated than the median. I'm thinking now of my students in the world of architecture, many of whom have not (due to the studio-intensive curricula in undergrad architecture programs) pursued many or any liberal-arts electives to speak of, and who are just very ill-equipped to talk with nuance about anything not strictly "architectural." Which is a problem first of all for architecture (since it turns out very few meaningful architectural problems are strictly architectural) but also for them as people: they're losing the chance to take advantage of their academic institutions' offerings that would make them more well-rounded and engaged interrogators of the world in general. I wonder how much of this might obtain in gamer-land.

Of course, it may be that the worst offenders really are just 13-year-olds modeling behavior they see in others (or in the games) as part of fitting in. But that too would be a whole nother area to investigate and push back against, and the feeling I get from reading any comments on any of these articles is that nobody wants to hear it, at all. I can totally understand the impulse for people who write on this stuff to just say fuck it, these people are not the core audience, can we just write them off as dinosaurs out of step with the mainstream now, please? It would be so great if the industry just pivoted towards better behavior and left the "hardcore" sexist gamers shrieking behind them. I don't really see that happening soon though.

Doctor Casino, Sunday, 31 August 2014 23:47 (2 days ago) Permalink

that devin wilson post was good

Nhex, Monday, 1 September 2014 00:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

btw doc all your posts otm

Nhex, Monday, 1 September 2014 00:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

aw thanks, i kinda feel like i'm groping/speculating since I don't really hang out on these sites and haven't been a "gamer" of any stripe in over a decade except for the odd freebie browser game or w/e.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 September 2014 00:16 (Yesterday) Permalink

gameing is going to go extinct because of social justice warriors

lag∞n, Monday, 1 September 2014 00:45 (Yesterday) Permalink

its sad it was an art

lag∞n, Monday, 1 September 2014 00:45 (Yesterday) Permalink

If our medium is designed for people to stay secluded for dozens of hours while having their egos stroked, then we reap what we sow in terms of the kinds of people who emerge from this pastime

this is interesting for sure

the ugliness of multiplayer gaming, the omnipresence of it, the rise of/mainstream acceptance of genres associated with it (that I gotta say, I personally dislike)... this is the stuff that really made me recede into a v specialized genre bubble. I'm skeptical that making games more 'social' is what's needed and that doesn't seem to be what wilson is getting at anyway... but like w/books, I actually really like the idea of enjoying games in isolation for long stretches of time and then thinking about what you got out of the experience or maybe discussing it w/ some friends. I don't necessarily think isolation is the problem here, but then again, I am an introvert...

(⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Monday, 1 September 2014 02:37 (Yesterday) Permalink

Yeah, I agree that that's not what the piece is getting at - particularly, the "having their egos stroked" and maybe also the "dozens of hours" - my sense is that the daily time commitment for some of these games is really different in quantity and maybe in quality from the kind we might give a good book. If nothing else: it's okay to set the book down during some of that, shake off the cobwebs, remember that it's only a book, mentally argue back with the author, etc. The sense I get is that MMOs and multiplayer shooters are more demanding than that - look away for a minute and it's all over. But I could be totally wrong, I guess the players are also alt-tabbing to other windows to argue in forums and stuff. Maybe I'm just being crotchety and old - I really don't want this to just sound like some Concerned Parent Group worrying about what The Games are doing to The Kids. It's just, when I get hooked on a game, I totally get hooked - forget to eat, click again and again for one more round, the whole deal. And this is me playing brightly-colored solitaire puzzle games or whatever. If games that are primarily about ego-stroking, dominance and squawking sexual abuse to other players over a headset have that same power, I do think there's something to be said in wondering what kind of people will emerge from that.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 September 2014 03:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

The funny thing (as a fellow introvert, Alan) these MMOs actually appeal really strongly to introverts, I suspect! My MMO experience isn't that deep (spent a couple years on some stuff pre-WOW, enough to know it's dangerous for me) but as someone who's spent also spent a crazy amount of time - seriously, thousands of hours at a mininum - on competitive games (particularly FPS and fighting games), it's something that gives the barest semblance of social interaction wrapped up in an activity you already love compulsively solo, but with an infinite variation due to human opponents. Even games that aren't competitive, like Diablo or Borderlands, can be all-consuming as drilling up numbers is even more addictive when you have others to enable and encourage your habit, also buried in the same realm.

Nhex, Monday, 1 September 2014 03:25 (Yesterday) Permalink

Having interviewed some pros, to be good at a competitive level is a fulltime job at least 6-8 intense hours a day everyday.... A friend of mine had spent one of the last 3 years logged into wow (back at the peak of that game)

ra's al goole (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 1 September 2014 13:16 (Yesterday) Permalink

these MMOs actually appeal really strongly to introverts

yeah, that follows. the 'infinite variation' thing does seem to be the emphasis, not anything truly social. good call.

particularly, the "having their egos stroked" and maybe also the "dozens of hours"

yep. and the endless un-critical consumption of things that are ultimately kind of hateful. and not even like nihilistic horror movies where you the viewer are being brutalized too and there's a weird catharsis there. it's more sanitized, you're in control, and you win.

(⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Monday, 1 September 2014 16:20 (Yesterday) Permalink

This hobby & industry is a cesspool

― ra's al goole (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, August 31, 2014 1:58 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Monday, 1 September 2014 16:36 (Yesterday) Permalink

http://quinnspiracy.com/godot.html

jmm, Monday, 1 September 2014 17:09 (Yesterday) Permalink

pffthehehe

Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 1 September 2014 17:26 (Yesterday) Permalink

I have an idea that so much video game discourse taking the form of Nintendo vs Sony vs Microsoft console wars sets gamers up for a combative approach too. It goes alongside the well-noted game aspects in that Devin Wilson post and fits in with his point seven on protecting value of investments. It might just be the communities I've happened to see, but I feel that mode gives a top down pervasive aggression that is in the interests of some of the most powerful companies in the business, in a way that you don't really get for any other media (it's more like sports, I guess? Comics which I know less about has two big mainstream companies, but less barrier to entry between the two of them?).

Iain Mew (if), Monday, 1 September 2014 17:37 (Yesterday) Permalink

An interesting comparison would be to Mac vs. PC which also involves a big sunk investment where people really are unlikely to do both. There's definitely a rivalry there but I don't think it gets as aggressive. OTOH there are probably more gamers who have two or more current-generation systems than there are casual computer users who own both a Mac and a PC. Generally I think sports is probably about right, and similarly I think anybody challenged on this would say, hey, it's all in fun, we play up the ridiculousness of the rivalry just 'cause. But more generally the tendency to be in "camps" probably does things that we can't exactly chart out.

Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 September 2014 19:11 (Yesterday) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.