Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

also feel like games HAVE to make gamers empathize w/ the game in a way that movies do not - movies can take more risks that way

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

Todd Solondz presents: Happiness, the Video Game

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

I always thought Tomb Raider the movie was made just to quiet all the feminist groups that complained about the video game, saying things like "no REAL woman could possibly look like that", well, lo and behold

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Can you give an example of this? I think in many cases, it's more the medium of being presented something as a movie rather than a game making it easier to notice the source material's dodgier aspects.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

oh man I remember reading an interview with the creators of the first Tomb Raider game where the art director almost verbatim said "you're spending 20 hours staring at this character's bum so it might as well be a nice one"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

there are a few real actresses I'd like to introduce you to

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

casual sexism is pretty accepted in rap music, along with casual homophobia and racism in the form of anti-semitism

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

I remember an interview with the creators of Tomb Raider, a few months before it came out, where they were like "if you're gonna spend the whole game looking at a butt it may as well be a really nice ass, high five broooooooseph *jumping chestbump*"

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

WTF??? Xpost

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

hahahaha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

ha there is probably something to the idea that the minute graphics got past the 8-bit stage the next logical progression was for game designers to think "oh shit now we can model T&A far more accurately"

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

has anybody ever seen Z S and DJP in a room at the same time before

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

boob slider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_Beach_Volleyball

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

... why does my lizard lady have tits.

This thread is comedy username gold

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

wd play all the games with massive shadebobs

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shadebobs&tbm=isch

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

Seriously didn't see that since I'm Zinging it and I'm slow. that interview was apparently very influential for us!

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

The Dead or Alive series spent an inordinate amount of time working on a super accurate physics engine just so they could claim to be the fighting game with the most realistic breast bounces

lol this was xposted by dayo

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's something to the argument that the fleshing-out of things is responsible, and that more sophisticated graphics/sound enables greater racism/sexism, but the dodgier aspects of movies are made dodgier by the movie. it's not as if it somehow revealed ugliness lurking beneath, e.g. casting leguizamo as luigi in super mario movie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

They didn't really say broseph - it was a more innocent time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (4 years ago) Permalink

there's some interview w/ the doa creator where he says he cares about the physics so much because he considers all the female characters his daughters or something

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:32 (4 years ago) Permalink

wait, why is Leguizamo worthy of mention but BOB HOSKINS isn't

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:33 (4 years ago) Permalink

the guy is actually whining because she wasn't there to instantly answer his questions on facebook. men deserve timely responses to their questions.

μpright mammal (mh), Monday, 18 April 2016 14:32 (1 week ago) Permalink

feeling really great about my relative anonymity online, and lucky i've never had to deal w/ any bullshit

http://nymag.com/following/2016/04/how-social-autopsy-fell-for-gamergate-trutherism.html

because clusterfucks like this are so disheartening on a deep level

goole, Monday, 18 April 2016 20:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

reading that was super depressing but the last sentence made me lol

i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Monday, 18 April 2016 21:00 (1 week ago) Permalink

Yeah, very depressing. The original idea was a fucking terrible idea, too.

emil.y, Monday, 18 April 2016 21:58 (1 week ago) Permalink

I've read the Social Autopsy 'exposé' blog post as well, and it basically has no new information that isn't listed in the nymag article. Just a series of "COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT" accusations. I'm sure she meant well, but her idea was awful and dangerous and now she seems like a complete crank.

emil.y, Monday, 18 April 2016 22:02 (1 week ago) Permalink

ugh that.. gave me a headache

Nhex, Tuesday, 19 April 2016 00:25 (1 week ago) Permalink

to be fair, the "people making anonymous shitty comments" problem is very real and widespread, and localized personal bullying of the type where kids (and adults) stalk and harass people they know is given a new dimension with online commenting/messaging

that's a very small portion of the world of online harassment, though. and people versed in the whole spectrum of online harassment -- as the targets of gamergate definitely are -- would have a lot to contribute, including knowledge of the gaslighting, reverse-sympathy ploys they're targeted by regularly. and "social autopsy" seems to have fallen for their tactics, completely

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 00:28 (1 week ago) Permalink

that story is so bizarre though
harassment victim starts kickstarter for funding the doxxing of online bullies
...while unaware of what doxxing is, and that it actually a preferred tactic of what hate mobs do nowawdays
...then buys into hate mob conspiracies that targets prominent anti-bullying victims
...who she then goes into accusing of leading a racist hate mob against her...
the stupidity of this is off the charts

one of the sad/funny observations from the reporter how this woman's conceptions of online bullying are already outdated, she was mostly familiar with anonymous facebook comments - so quaint in these days of Swatting and obscene phone calls to your mother and boss in the middle of the night

Nhex, Tuesday, 19 April 2016 00:39 (1 week ago) Permalink

quaint but still an issue, even if it seems relatively benign to the more jaded of us

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 02:11 (1 week ago) Permalink

Yeah she comes across as someone very young/inexperienced so to read she is 26 suprised me.Maybe I'm just too immersed in this stuff, but she's really misread everything and it seems plain as day.

Interesting. No, wait, the other thing: tedious. (Trayce), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 06:30 (1 week ago) Permalink

The weirdest part was I assumed the tweet screenshots were made by a GG guy, until I got further down in the story.

Interesting. No, wait, the other thing: tedious. (Trayce), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 06:47 (1 week ago) Permalink

a psychologist speaks "women in tech are often "fatally compromised with victimology psychosis."" http://www.polygon.com/2016/4/18/11452564/would-you-want-to-work-for-this-guy

Neil S, Tuesday, 19 April 2016 12:19 (1 week ago) Permalink

*toilet flush emoji*

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 13:34 (1 week ago) Permalink

a true shitbag

Nhex, Tuesday, 19 April 2016 13:44 (1 week ago) Permalink

lol WildTangent founder thinks games are art

some men just want to watch the world Bern (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 16:21 (1 week ago) Permalink

Ugh this guy. I can't begin to imagine how sheltered the lives of modern technology employees must be to think that any amount of hours they spend pushing a mouse around for a paycheck is really demanding strenuous work," he writes.

...because working for 24 hours without sleep and a break, regardless of wether you're just "pushing a mouse" (wtffff) is just FINNNNNE. Tell that to my ex who almost had a breakdown because of cunty bosses with attitudes like yours mate.

Interesting. No, wait, the other thing: tedious. (Trayce), Tuesday, 19 April 2016 23:10 (1 week ago) Permalink

On the one hand, great photo for that piece. On the other hand, that guy had somebody take that photo - no need to write the piece, really

bothan zulu (El Tomboto), Friday, 22 April 2016 00:47 (1 week ago) Permalink

Yeah all thats missing from that pic is a fedora tbrh

Interesting. No, wait, the other thing: tedious. (Trayce), Friday, 22 April 2016 00:58 (1 week ago) Permalink

there were some really great alex st. john pictures in pc gamer magazine back in the day. you know, when all video game developers had to be interviewed with really dramatic lighting, looking like they were weird digital messiah figures

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 22 April 2016 14:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

haha omg:
https://medium.com/@milistjohn/i-am-alex-st-john-s-daughter-and-he-is-wrong-about-women-in-tech-4728545e7c0e#.oenw3y9qj

My name is Amilia St. John and I am the daughter of Alex St. John. Yes, that one. For those not following the horrific toddler meltdown my father has been very publicly broadcasting over the past few days, here is a short summary

μpright mammal (mh), Friday, 22 April 2016 14:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

Yeah that owns

Sean, let me be clear (silby), Friday, 22 April 2016 14:34 (1 week ago) Permalink

<3

emil.y, Friday, 22 April 2016 15:49 (1 week ago) Permalink

amilia st. john otm

the world’s youngest hyper-polyglot (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 23 April 2016 07:39 (1 week ago) Permalink

Yeah, this has gone over the line to making fun of someone with definite mental problems, IMHO.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 25 April 2016 23:42 (5 days ago) Permalink

somehow she went from a social campaign to stop bullying to reacting so harshly to the first person that questioned her methods that she allied herself with white supremacists and proud misogynists

μpright mammal (mh), Tuesday, 26 April 2016 00:48 (4 days ago) Permalink


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