Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

also feel like games HAVE to make gamers empathize w/ the game in a way that movies do not - movies can take more risks that way

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Todd Solondz presents: Happiness, the Video Game

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I always thought Tomb Raider the movie was made just to quiet all the feminist groups that complained about the video game, saying things like "no REAL woman could possibly look like that", well, lo and behold

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Can you give an example of this? I think in many cases, it's more the medium of being presented something as a movie rather than a game making it easier to notice the source material's dodgier aspects.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man I remember reading an interview with the creators of the first Tomb Raider game where the art director almost verbatim said "you're spending 20 hours staring at this character's bum so it might as well be a nice one"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

there are a few real actresses I'd like to introduce you to

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

casual sexism is pretty accepted in rap music, along with casual homophobia and racism in the form of anti-semitism

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I remember an interview with the creators of Tomb Raider, a few months before it came out, where they were like "if you're gonna spend the whole game looking at a butt it may as well be a really nice ass, high five broooooooseph *jumping chestbump*"

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

WTF??? Xpost

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahahaha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha there is probably something to the idea that the minute graphics got past the 8-bit stage the next logical progression was for game designers to think "oh shit now we can model T&A far more accurately"

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

has anybody ever seen Z S and DJP in a room at the same time before

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

boob slider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_Beach_Volleyball

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

... why does my lizard lady have tits.

This thread is comedy username gold

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

wd play all the games with massive shadebobs

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shadebobs&tbm=isch

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Seriously didn't see that since I'm Zinging it and I'm slow. that interview was apparently very influential for us!

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Dead or Alive series spent an inordinate amount of time working on a super accurate physics engine just so they could claim to be the fighting game with the most realistic breast bounces

lol this was xposted by dayo

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's something to the argument that the fleshing-out of things is responsible, and that more sophisticated graphics/sound enables greater racism/sexism, but the dodgier aspects of movies are made dodgier by the movie. it's not as if it somehow revealed ugliness lurking beneath, e.g. casting leguizamo as luigi in super mario movie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

They didn't really say broseph - it was a more innocent time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's some interview w/ the doa creator where he says he cares about the physics so much because he considers all the female characters his daughters or something

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait, why is Leguizamo worthy of mention but BOB HOSKINS isn't

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

the internet was harassing Dong Nguyen for making a game, which is unacceptable. -- links to tweets where ppl are yelling at him for taking it off the website; probably over-the-top but his one link to how the internet harassed Nguyen disproves his argument.

Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:25 (5 months ago) Permalink

it seems to me like flappy bird has been really embraced. it's super popular and everyone i know loves it.

Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:26 (5 months ago) Permalink

I definitely saw some twitter weirdness about the guy before he announced he was taking it down. But I have no idea if the race thing has anything to do with it.

emil.y, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:29 (5 months ago) Permalink

And the abuse directed toward him for taking it down doesn't disprove that there was abuse directed toward him beforehand. That's a pretty odd thing to claim.

emil.y, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:30 (5 months ago) Permalink

it's just that he cites that particular link as evidence that ppl disliked the game. he continues in the next paragraph:


This harassment was also completely baseless, because (a) the game is rather well-made, if you like these sorts of insta-death reflex games, (b) Flappy Bird lets you restart quickly, which is usually a huge monetization point -- why would a supposedly-greedy mobile game developer monetize their game so inefficiently?, (c) if you look at the actual pixels, Nguyen clearly did not rip any art, and who cares if he wanted to put green pipes in his game?

if he can't correctly parse a bunch of ppl being upset bc a game they like is being taken away from them, maybe he lacks the skills to do a more complex sociopolitical analysis of the racial context of the game.

Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:34 (5 months ago) Permalink

Hm, okay, I get what you're saying - he didn't provide the right evidence, it kind of scuppers his argument. But personally I've seen stuff that backs up his claim... But yeah, I can't be arsed to look for it myself now, and he should have done the work anyway, not me.

emil.y, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:37 (5 months ago) Permalink

Robert Yang Fartmaster • a day ago −
Hey "fartmaster" -- almost every mainstream outlet has made a point of announcing Nguyen as Vietnamese. I don't think that, itself, is bad, because I'd agree that's newsworthy given the state of the mobile market... yet it certainly plays a role... like whether you think he's just expressing his love of Mario (what, so your fandom of Mario is more genuine than his?) vs. he's somehow now a conniving thief who's claiming he invented the idea of pixel art pipes that he drew himself?

like what is even the argument here? that ppl are being racist against the vietnamese designer homaging a japanese video game icon by relying on the old shopworn vietnamese are thieves (?????is this a thing????) stereotype?

Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 01:38 (5 months ago) Permalink

i noticed more than a few articles that announced his "theft" of assets as a settled, done deal, with tons of angry comments about it, which was just BS

socki (s1ocki), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 15:50 (5 months ago) Permalink

it's a good time to hate on the Asian man

Nhex, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 15:51 (5 months ago) Permalink

i wonder if this is more due to the fact that there's a sort of concept of the non-Japanese-east that is all pirate-y and stuff -- if this game was made by someone from north america, or europe, or even japan, it wouldn't be stealing -- it'd be "reference" or "homage" or something. but since he's from some place where they steal software and there's no "tacit knowledge" of the "relevance" of "video game" """history""" there it must be theft?

I've Seen rRootage (Will M.), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 17:01 (5 months ago) Permalink

idk i have a terrible head cold and that might not make any sense but :( @ ppl picking THAT particular nit, wtf, seriously.

i'd be interested to see if there was some precedent for this in western writing about eastern music, ie. "(person from asia) ripped off this part of this song" in the same breath as "(person from USA) sampled this song"

I've Seen rRootage (Will M.), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 17:04 (5 months ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/female-journalist-gets-rape-threats-over-comic-book-criticism.html

This is from the world of comic books, but this seems to be the most relevant thread to this topic. Dunno if it needs a parallel one on ilc.

glasses jacket jerfman (how's life), Friday, 25 April 2014 22:31 (3 months ago) Permalink

Because it was created by a straight white male, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/4/23/5640678/playing-with-privilege-the-invisible-benefits-of-gaming-while-male

bizarro gazzara, Saturday, 26 April 2014 20:07 (3 months ago) Permalink

I like this relevant Cracked podcast ep, as Jason Pargin begins to peck away at defining the problem:

http://www.earwolf.com/episode/shockingly-sexist-messages-in-the-modern-world/

Stephen King's Threaderstarter (kingfish), Sunday, 27 April 2014 16:51 (3 months ago) Permalink

porting the invisible knapsack to consoles

purposely lend impetus to my HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 28 April 2014 16:31 (3 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/fighting-online-harassment/

, Friday, 16 May 2014 03:19 (2 months ago) Permalink

iot found that persistently negative players were only responsible for roughly 13 percent of the game’s bad behavior. The other 87 percent was coming from players whose presence, most of the time, seemed to be generally inoffensive or even positive. These gamers were lashing out only occasionally, in isolated incidents—but their outbursts often snowballed through the community. Banning the worst trolls wouldn’t be enough to clean up League of Legends, Riot’s player behavior team realized. Nothing less than community-wide reforms could succeed.

, Friday, 16 May 2014 03:19 (2 months ago) Permalink

interesting

Nhex, Friday, 16 May 2014 04:53 (2 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 11:16 (1 month ago) Permalink

France.

JimD, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 11:19 (1 month ago) Permalink

Seriously??

it definitely wasn't designed to be a pants pocket player (stevie), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 12:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

what am i looking at here

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 12:59 (1 month ago) Permalink

oh igi. well, let's hope that was randomly generated, then --

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 13:00 (1 month ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

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