Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

also feel like games HAVE to make gamers empathize w/ the game in a way that movies do not - movies can take more risks that way

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Todd Solondz presents: Happiness, the Video Game

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I always thought Tomb Raider the movie was made just to quiet all the feminist groups that complained about the video game, saying things like "no REAL woman could possibly look like that", well, lo and behold

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Can you give an example of this? I think in many cases, it's more the medium of being presented something as a movie rather than a game making it easier to notice the source material's dodgier aspects.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man I remember reading an interview with the creators of the first Tomb Raider game where the art director almost verbatim said "you're spending 20 hours staring at this character's bum so it might as well be a nice one"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

there are a few real actresses I'd like to introduce you to

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

casual sexism is pretty accepted in rap music, along with casual homophobia and racism in the form of anti-semitism

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

I remember an interview with the creators of Tomb Raider, a few months before it came out, where they were like "if you're gonna spend the whole game looking at a butt it may as well be a really nice ass, high five broooooooseph *jumping chestbump*"

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

WTF??? Xpost

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahahaha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha there is probably something to the idea that the minute graphics got past the 8-bit stage the next logical progression was for game designers to think "oh shit now we can model T&A far more accurately"

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

has anybody ever seen Z S and DJP in a room at the same time before

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

boob slider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_Beach_Volleyball

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

... why does my lizard lady have tits.

This thread is comedy username gold

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

wd play all the games with massive shadebobs

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shadebobs&tbm=isch

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

Seriously didn't see that since I'm Zinging it and I'm slow. that interview was apparently very influential for us!

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Dead or Alive series spent an inordinate amount of time working on a super accurate physics engine just so they could claim to be the fighting game with the most realistic breast bounces

lol this was xposted by dayo

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's something to the argument that the fleshing-out of things is responsible, and that more sophisticated graphics/sound enables greater racism/sexism, but the dodgier aspects of movies are made dodgier by the movie. it's not as if it somehow revealed ugliness lurking beneath, e.g. casting leguizamo as luigi in super mario movie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

They didn't really say broseph - it was a more innocent time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's some interview w/ the doa creator where he says he cares about the physics so much because he considers all the female characters his daughters or something

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait, why is Leguizamo worthy of mention but BOB HOSKINS isn't

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 12:28 (1 week ago) Permalink

oh my god. that's amazing. didn't make it to the end.

how's life, Friday, 16 January 2015 12:38 (1 week ago) Permalink

deep cultural commentary

valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:46 (1 week ago) Permalink

"There isn't a line in the whole thing that isn't from somewhere else. That's obviously the point," said Yiannopoulos. "You actually, really believe that it could possibly be anything but a giant pisstake? That it could be 'deception'? Really?"

ah, the shia labeef defence

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 16 January 2015 14:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

When confronted with accusations of plagiarism on Twitter Yiannopoulos freely admitted that the collection was made up of other people's words, and that it was an example of "sampling" like in music.
"There isn't a line in the whole thing that isn't from somewhere else. That's obviously the point," said Yiannopoulos. "You actually, really believe that it could possibly be anything but a giant pisstake? That it could be 'deception'? Really?"

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

xp

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:58 (1 week ago) Permalink

Milo Andreas Wagner

Milo. Andreas. Wagner.

valleys of your mind (mh), Friday, 16 January 2015 14:58 (1 week ago) Permalink

This clown is so far gone, but sadly anyone who would still support him at this point is unlikely to be fazed by this, or anything.

Doctor Casino, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:00 (1 week ago) Permalink

if they bought andrew bleepblorp they'll buy this turd

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:07 (1 week ago) Permalink

Actually there's a perfectly reasonable tradition of bricolage, found content and recontextualisation in poetry, but none of that stops his own work from being unutterably offensive shite.

emil.y, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:11 (1 week ago) Permalink

actually, it's about ethics in terrible poetry

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:19 (1 week ago) Permalink

Milo. Andreas. Wagner.

pronounced vahgner, one hopes

mookieproof, Friday, 16 January 2015 15:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

Vahgner, Max. VAHGNER.

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 15:50 (1 week ago) Permalink

vah-nyare

qualx, Friday, 16 January 2015 16:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

i just literally cannot conceive of how anyone wouldn't think milo to be insufferably full of shit.

#Research (stevie), Friday, 16 January 2015 16:33 (1 week ago) Permalink

There's a lot of "but he's our asshole, full of shit though he may be" going on, though.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 16 January 2015 16:48 (1 week ago) Permalink

He also self-published a book of poetry in 2007 called Eskimo Papoose under the name Milo Andreas Wagner, but it turns out that it may not be so much a work of poetry as a bizarre mix tape of Tori Amos lyrics.

The contents of the book were shared by former football punter Chris Kluwe

just step back and read these sentences, how amazing is this. pynchon can fuck off.

goole, Friday, 16 January 2015 19:12 (1 week ago) Permalink

NYU Game Center Lecture Series presents Anita Sarkeesian
Thursday, February 5th, 7PM
2 Metrotech Center, 8th Floor
Join us for a discussion with Anita Sarkeesian, media critic and feminist scholar. As creator of the Tropes vs Women in Video Games series, Anita's work has sparked a wide-ranging conversation about the status and meaning of games and the cultural values they reflect and express. How are games evolving as creative media? What is the role of cultural criticism in understanding the games we make and play? How are the communities around games changing and where are those changes taking us? Please join us for a civilized and respectful in-real-life conversation about these and other topics.

RSVP here. Free and open to the public.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/nyu-game-center-lecture-series-presents-anita-sarkeesian-tickets-15503197481

Sounds like a forks display name (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 January 2015 21:28 (2 days ago) Permalink

do you think this person is real

https://twitter.com/SyrianGamerBro

is this a real, honest twitter

goole, Wednesday, 28 January 2015 22:09 (Yesterday) Permalink

A somewhat heartwarming story of the Troll Who Came In From The Cold

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/545/if-you-dont-have-anything-nice-to-say-say-it-in-all-caps

walid foster dulles (man alive), Thursday, 29 January 2015 03:30 (10 hours ago) Permalink

I really have a lot of hope for all of this, like it is really cool that there is this constant discussion going on now. It would be cool if this was true about movies or tv or politics. Not the part about people being harassed, but about people having discussions. There is a mass awareness of feminism right now and for most of recent pop history it has been portrayed in a scary and misleading light. Note that pop portrayals of feminism have in the past tended to be written or commented by men. She has an opportunity here to really educate an entire generation (and more) of previously oblivious men and women about feminism. If this is the most famous she is going to get I say she should make her next video Feminism 101. That's just a suggestion tho.

©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 29 January 2015 04:07 (10 hours ago) Permalink

i have pretty much the opposite view - to me the whole gamergate farrago has been a demonstration of how resistant a certain subset of men are to having discussions about anything which could, no matter how unlikely, be a threat to the things they hold dear.

how many gamergaters have actually watched a feminist frequency video? sarkeesian's points are level-headed and well-framed for a general audience - you don't need to have a deep understanding of feminist theory to grasp that the fact that she's found hundreds of examples of women in videogames being treated as set dressing or damsels in distress or reskinned male characters. and she's not saying that games should be banned or censored, just that these tropes are very, very common and there's value in pointing that out. it's basic cultural criticism ffs! if games are going to be considered an artform then of course they're going to be subject to the same scrutiny as movies or tv or politics.

but the actual content of her videos is never really discussed by gamergaters. if they do want to discuss femfreq at all, it's 'what happened to her kickstarter money' or 'hey ea, what role is she playing in mirror's edge 2 let's start a petition hurr hurr' but more often, as that link from her tumblr shows, it's just hurling the most vile abuse imaginable and refusing to even consider thinking about what she actually has to say.

it's great that sarkeesian's work is getting exposure in the new york times and on colbert, and that might well lead some people to think more than they ever have before about feminism, but i think those messsages are clearly failing to reach the people who most need to hear them. instead, they're doxxing people, issuing death threats, and convincing themselves that feminazis want to replace Call of Duty with Gone Home.

the bitter irony of the gamergate backlash against those 'gamers are dead' articles was that they were celebrating the widening of gaming culture - the stereotype of the cheeto-dusted basement-dwelling social inadequates is over because everyone's a gamer now! but as a result of those articles, those people have set their minds to dragging gaming back into the basement and making gaming culture as hostile as possible to anyone perceived as an 'outsider'.

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 29 January 2015 10:46 (3 hours ago) Permalink

I don't know that's it's never discussed, more that there's a litany of criticisms (It's all out of context / she's stealing other people's let's play / she's making claims not backed up by the footage) that get recycled without much need to actually view the videos.

Also of course the straw manning that there is no female character that would make SJWs happy because (goes through checklist).

and she's not saying that games should be banned or censored

This gets a lot of "No but you can tell that they mean it" - though that tends to be the end that believes that she's not writing any of it, the whole thing is a Jonathan McIntosh presentation.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 29 January 2015 12:46 (1 hour ago) Permalink


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