Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

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okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)

Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (five years ago) Permalink

duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (five years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (five years ago) Permalink

did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (five years ago) Permalink

"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.

raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (five years ago) Permalink

haha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

lol gg then

bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (five years ago) Permalink

fyi listening to that may drive you crazy

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (five years ago) Permalink

the Mario Kart one is also insane

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

"So long, gay Bowser!"

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (five years ago) Permalink

Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*
PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (five years ago) Permalink

Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.

beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (five years ago) Permalink

it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around

I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (five years ago) Permalink

haha awesome typo

"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (five years ago) Permalink

i'ma luigi. nambar wan.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (five years ago) Permalink

oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.

goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (five years ago) Permalink

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (five years ago) Permalink

I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (five years ago) Permalink

im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (five years ago) Permalink

(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (five years ago) Permalink

oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (five years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

also feel like games HAVE to make gamers empathize w/ the game in a way that movies do not - movies can take more risks that way

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (five years ago) Permalink

Todd Solondz presents: Happiness, the Video Game

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:22 (five years ago) Permalink

I always thought Tomb Raider the movie was made just to quiet all the feminist groups that complained about the video game, saying things like "no REAL woman could possibly look like that", well, lo and behold

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (five years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (five years ago) Permalink

re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.

Can you give an example of this? I think in many cases, it's more the medium of being presented something as a movie rather than a game making it easier to notice the source material's dodgier aspects.

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:24 (five years ago) Permalink

i know i am probably missing some counterexamples here but it seems like the new fallout stuff has actually done a pretty good job of avoiding these pitfalls considering what a massive game francise its been

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:25 (five years ago) Permalink

oh man I remember reading an interview with the creators of the first Tomb Raider game where the art director almost verbatim said "you're spending 20 hours staring at this character's bum so it might as well be a nice one"

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (five years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

there are a few real actresses I'd like to introduce you to

Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:26 (five years ago) Permalink

casual sexism is pretty accepted in rap music, along with casual homophobia and racism in the form of anti-semitism

congratulations (n/a), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

I remember an interview with the creators of Tomb Raider, a few months before it came out, where they were like "if you're gonna spend the whole game looking at a butt it may as well be a really nice ass, high five broooooooseph *jumping chestbump*"

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

WTF??? Xpost

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:27 (five years ago) Permalink

hahahaha

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

ha there is probably something to the idea that the minute graphics got past the 8-bit stage the next logical progression was for game designers to think "oh shit now we can model T&A far more accurately"

sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

has anybody ever seen Z S and DJP in a room at the same time before

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

boob slider:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_or_Alive_Xtreme_Beach_Volleyball

dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:28 (five years ago) Permalink

also in movies you actually have real actresses whereas if you're making a game you can just crank up the boob slider

... why does my lizard lady have tits.

This thread is comedy username gold

og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

wd play all the games with massive shadebobs

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shadebobs&tbm=isch

instant coffee happening between us (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Seriously didn't see that since I'm Zinging it and I'm slow. that interview was apparently very influential for us!

1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

The Dead or Alive series spent an inordinate amount of time working on a super accurate physics engine just so they could claim to be the fighting game with the most realistic breast bounces

lol this was xposted by dayo

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:30 (five years ago) Permalink

there's something to the argument that the fleshing-out of things is responsible, and that more sophisticated graphics/sound enables greater racism/sexism, but the dodgier aspects of movies are made dodgier by the movie. it's not as if it somehow revealed ugliness lurking beneath, e.g. casting leguizamo as luigi in super mario movie.

Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

They didn't really say broseph - it was a more innocent time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

there's some interview w/ the doa creator where he says he cares about the physics so much because he considers all the female characters his daughters or something

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:32 (five years ago) Permalink

wait, why is Leguizamo worthy of mention but BOB HOSKINS isn't

God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:33 (five years ago) Permalink

the subject of milo came up at work yesterday and i spent a while trying to explain to a colleague what gamergate was and how milo used it as a vehicle to gain further notoriety. unsurprisingly she was nonplussed by the whole sorry affair and i was deeply disappointed to discover just how much info about gamergate i had retained :(

im a male feminist, i have a fleshlight just to eat it out (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 11:03 (two months ago) Permalink

I've retained too much weird conspiratorial shit. I was talking to a friend yesterday who explained a recent lunch she'd had with a retired ex-coworker. Apparently this woman launched into a series of conspiracies, one after the other, and completely believed it all -- billionaire/politician sex slave rings, local crime so bad she needed to carry a gun (she had a gun in her purse), and of course... chemtrails.

Where was this retired person getting her news, since she claimed the news media only reported lies? Youtube.

mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:13 (two months ago) Permalink

retired coworker otm

not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:17 (two months ago) Permalink

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:17 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah if u ever scan t_d on reddit (pls don't do this) you'll usually find 2-3 links per fresh front page that are youtube clips. basically anyone can publish anything they want and as long as it's reinforcing the narrative somebody will believe it fully regardless of the absurdity of the claim. hell, kyrie irving believes the Earth is flat and he's frequently flying internationally and not falling off the edge of the world so idk what really is truth anyway

art, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:19 (two months ago) Permalink

http://kotaku.com/scumbags-harass-woman-for-working-on-mass-effect-andro-1793410647

Jesus Christ

Starting with the transformation of a game’s sometimes silly character animations into a conspiracy, and then later a scandal in which the data points waver between incomplete and meaningless, the cycle isn’t new by this point.

SFTGFOP (El Tomboto), Sunday, 19 March 2017 11:39 (two months ago) Permalink

http://kotaku.com/underwhelming-gay-romance-options-in-mass-effect-andro-1793677330

Since it was released, Andromeda has been criticized about how it handles gay romance options, particularly for male characters. On neoGAF, Reddit, unofficial BioWare forums, and on Twitter, there are hundreds of pages of complaints, with many people accusing BioWare of treating gay romance as an “afterthought.”

1staethyr, Monday, 27 March 2017 21:14 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

http://www.polygon.com/2017/4/20/15369210/palmer-luckey-trump-donation

sigh/lol

Nhex, Thursday, 20 April 2017 15:23 (one month ago) Permalink

so that's allowed here?

duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:14 (one month ago) Permalink

imho no. please let's finish phasing out "aspie" on ILX.

long dark poptart of the rodeo (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:16 (one month ago) Permalink

For reals, thought that was over before I went away so I could have a comeback

El Tomboto, Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:29 (one month ago) Permalink

all I really want to do is point at that post, point at the thread title, solemnly post "IRONY", then slowly fade into the background as the soundtrack crescendos with an ominous synth swell

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:30 (one month ago) Permalink

you are of course all correct - apologies

years of immersion in the seduction community (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:32 (one month ago) Permalink

(the interesting thing about all of this is an argument I'm half-remembering from years ago where a bunch of neurotypical people were arguing that "aspie" was offensive and several posters on the spectrum were arguing "no, actually we like that name" and I was too confused/bemused by the whole thing to comment/participate aside from deciding that if someone was going to get offended if I used that word, I was better off not using it)

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:34 (one month ago) Permalink

appreciate it, bg. my big sister has asperger's so it's something that's come to strike a particular chord with me. not gonna put myself on a pedestal - it did not jump out to me in the years between when the word started circulating and when she found her diagnosis. a failure of my own empathic instincts and training for sure.

long dark poptart of the rodeo (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:46 (one month ago) Permalink

chicken/egg situation there, lacking empathy makes it difficult to understand why it's a bad term, and people who qualify under that same umbrella often lack empathy

a landlocked exclave (mh 😏), Thursday, 20 April 2017 16:48 (one month ago) Permalink

been working to get it out of my vocab irl and online tbh
and yes, i'm a bit ocd/spectrum-y myself so mh otm

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:19 (one month ago) Permalink

anyway, you guys are missing the big pull-quote there:

Oculus co-founder Palmer Luckey donated $100,000 to President Trump’s inaugural celebrations through a shell company seemingly named after a time-traveling vehicle from role-playing game Chrono Trigger.

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:49 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't think any of that is particularly surprising, tbh

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:52 (one month ago) Permalink

SPINAL FUNCTION

Bobson Dugnutt (ulysses), Thursday, 20 April 2017 17:53 (one month ago) Permalink

it's surprising that it happened in actual reality

ZEAL PALACE CORP

Nhex, Thursday, 20 April 2017 18:27 (one month ago) Permalink

not really, it's 2017 and these fuckers are seemingly everywhere. mostly because they're too vocal and the internet is omnipresent

a landlocked exclave (mh 😏), Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:02 (one month ago) Permalink

Yeah, like I don't know how you can interact with gaming culture at large (or have followed the bitcoin saga, or watched any portion of the shenanigans that fuel Silicon Valley) and be surprised at this.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:17 (one month ago) Permalink

but then again I've also been saying that comments sections are a bellwether for the country at large for years now so maybe I've just jaded myself into expecting shit like this and every instance of it is confirmation bias

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Thursday, 20 April 2017 19:19 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

So, I read Lindy West's fantastic Shrill yesterday, and I strongly recommend it for any number of reasons. But I thought of this thread because she discusses at length the backlash to her taking the position that rape jokes are generally not funny, and that stand-up comedy's male protestations of free speech and "equal opportunity offender"-ism mask and trivialize real harm in precisely the way patriarchal culture at large wants to minimize and erase rape and the experience of survivors (thus, such jokes can't even claim to be transgressive or shocking, not that that would be an excuse anyway). This all went down in 2013, a year before Gamergate, and the tactics, tone and avenues of the harassment campaign are all identical. I wouldn't be the first to connect the two sagas, but it did help turn some light bulbs on for me - at several points upthread I was most interested, in terms of armchair internet discourse analysis, in parsing out how GamerGate might show a particular translation of general misogyny through the particular tropes and life experiences of gamernerds.

I still don't think that's a dead end insofar as it might help in developing strategies to interrupt and redirect gamernerd culture in the long run. West writes hopefully about how teenaged stand-up comedy nerds might just maybe think about this issue differently when from the minute they're getting interested in the form, their heroes are willing to come out and say that rape jokes arent' funny --- reminded me of my reflection somewhere upthread that the anonymous writers of Usenet group FAQs probably helped shape my 12- and 13-year-old sense of how you're supposed to behave in a community generally and to interact with people you can't see specifically. But, seeing obvious patterns that line up between Gamergate and non-gamernerd developments otherwise identical in substances does make me think that the more useful common denominator is the language, behavior and values inculcated in white male culture generally and white male internet culture specifically. Again not a staggering revelation but put another way, I think the thread title question isn't wrong in its assumptions, but may be giving other forms of media a little too much credit.

✓ (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 14 May 2017 17:52 (one week ago) Permalink


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