i think it's bc games are competitive experiences and competition brings out the worst in human beings
― Mordy, Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
idk i obv have some pretty strong concerns abt that wrt online FPS screaming idiots and the like, but i dont think that has as much to do with the games themselves (i mean obv its part of the experience but it isnt internalized content per se)
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
some of it is cultural differences/lack of knowledge between Asia and the West.
― bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
do you guys mean disgusting behavior in players or the games?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
i mean ive heard some commentary on this but a lot of the big arguments are a little facile and outsidery to me, like the idea that games are a juvenilized form of entertainment and thus more prone to juvenile thinking
xxpost yeah bnw that is def one of the things that i think factors in
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
the sexism is definitely audience targeting. and it is depressingly dead on.
― bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
i am talking abt the games, not the players, but obv there is going to be some reflection there wrt consumers influencing content etc
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
it's not just that consumers influence the content, it's also that game creators are gamers themselves and exist in the gaming community. they play on the same multiplayer servers and their customers, they're influenced by the same games...
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
-demographics.-the fact that computer games, for fairly obvious reasons, attract less sophisticated writers than other forms of media.
― zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:43 (1 year ago) Permalink
was the new deus ex french? or french canadian? because thats def one of the weirdest examples of this - fairly thoughtful intellectual game and then whoa whats up with this homeless lady
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
to be perjorative a bit, nerds' poor socialization extends to society broadly, not just socializing. and they get reeeaaally defensive when called on their shit.
combined with a post-rockstar "it's supposed to be funny!" attitude w/r/t this kind of shit and it's a toxic brew
― goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
A big hook for many games is "by gamers, for gamers"; this means almost by design that a good chunk of regressive content is going to be present in the games since they are operating in this feedback loop where the social environment these games are created in is normalized to be incredibly shitty in a lot of ways.
For all of the equality for things like, say, making your character be male or female is a cosmetic change that doesn't affect your stats, you have things like all of the female iterations of the WoW races being as close to "busty cutie-pie" as the baseline skin will allow them to be (the undead and dwarf races are particularly comical re: this, but even the frickin' minotaur race has "sexy" female forms with cow heads).
xposts basically covered all of this but I am inflicting the concept of sexy cows on y'all anyway
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
some of it is sort of legacy racism from the earlier forms of media that fed VGs? D&D, action movies, etc
xp oh god WoW haha
― goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
how do you guys rank sexism/racism by systems? nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
also, game content really not as important as ludic components (the best story can just barely redeem a game with terrible gameplay sometimes, while tons of beloved games have amazing gameplay and no story to speak of, or a really shitty story), so it's less important to designers to get stuff right with the content - which is where the racist/sexist stuff primarily exists
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
I mean... come on
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
actually feel like WoW held back a lot compared to some other games.
― bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
Skyrim has the same sort of issues. Like ... why does my lizard lady have tits.
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:51 (1 year ago) Permalink
nintendo (the most juvenile) should come out looking better I'd think.
have you ever played a Mario game??? also Punchout lololol.
― zappi, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
theyre not?
― Lamp, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
mario racist against turtles?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
well sure, WoW isn't like Duke Nukem, but the point is more that the whole "moving comic book" medium that their art direction is based upon is super normalized in how the genders should be represented, to the point where even for races where it doesn't make sense for the males to be burly he-men and the women to be curvy sexpots, they still are
also, there's the female night elf dance (which is based on the famous Alizee clips that were zooming around the Internet in the early 00s):
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
copying this over from the other thread because i thinks it a very interesting and good point to think abt
i wonder if part of it is because games are often a solo experience (though not always of course) whereas movies, at some point in their release cycle at least, are experienced collectively? in other words, because the casual racism is easier for people to swallow by themselves as opposed to in a group?― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)
― 1986 tallest hair contest (Z S), Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:29 PM (25 minutes ago)
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
okay lol @ Mario being so mainstreamed that all of the "MAMA MIA" and "IT'SA ME, MARIO!" interjections don't even register as caricature anymore
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
i disagree w/ ZS's assertion esp bc i think the most racist/sexist behavior re video games happens in their most collective experience (multiplayer)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah I think this is pretty easily chalked up to creators pandering to (and being born of) the overwhelmingly 15-35 male demographics of AAA game buyers. The women and men who like and play AAA games but don't like sexualized representations of women in these games (and also comic books) make their voices heard but the majority of the audience would be bummed if you took away their lizardwoman tits.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
duh DJP you cant be racist against italians anymore, the godfather fixed that forever
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
it's well documented that gaming community demographics are a) incredibly skewed towards white males and b) fairly skewed towards people with poor social skills, which seems like a believable cause of misogyny and just general misanthropy all around
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 20:59 (1 year ago) Permalink
did Mario ever say those lines or are we forcing racism on the poor guy? are we blaming his video game char for his cartoon version? important issues in my work day
― bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
"it's a-me, Mario!" the sound of booting up Super Mario 64 iirc.
― raw feel vegan (silby), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
haha
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
lol gg then
― bnw, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:02 (1 year ago) Permalink
fyi listening to that may drive you crazy
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
the Mario Kart one is also insane
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
"So long, gay Bowser!"
― beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
Alot of this sounds like hes sleeping with someone. *barfs*PeachyzeldagirlXD 3 weeks ago
― og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
Do u say "ravioli!" when u fuckin?
― og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
did they really get roberto benigni to do the voices?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
Everybody knows that Mario's wet dreams involve pasta and Bowser.
― beanz meanz lulz (snoball), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
I worked at a gaming geek/comic book store for a couple years and this kind of stuff is everywhere. the idea that females without massive bobs existed at some point is lost on these people
― Estimate the percent chance that a whale has ever been to the moon? (frogbs), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
haha awesome typo
"I like the writer but does the artist have to make every female character's hair so big?"
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'ma luigi. nambar wan.
― goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
oh man my old college roommate used to say "yeah, peach has got it" in a squeaky ass voice all the time. mad nostalgia.
― goole, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
― og (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:15 (1 year ago) Permalink
I never played the Horde side of WoW with any regularity so I didn't realize that the trolls were all Jamaican until way way late in the game when I started a troll character because I was bored. Reading the quest text for most of the starter area was PAINFUL.
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
there's a ton of gender normalization in movies too, yeah?
― dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:16 (1 year ago) Permalink
im def not saying that movies are immune but i dont think you can make the argument that movies even approach the overt O_O aspects of video games wrt either of these
― sfdgafhtehw (jjjusten), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:18 (1 year ago) Permalink
(I also used to play WoW with the sound off and either Vent or iTunes going, so I missed a good chunk of the voice acting)
― God, Music and Romeo and Juliet (DJP), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink
oh yeah for sure, and movies as a genre are much more mature. but it seems to me that anytime you throw a lot of money at a project (either a blockbuster movie or a blockbuster game) you're gonna end up w/ some pretty unreasonable gender representations
― dayo, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
re: relative badness of video games to movies, for that to be true then the racism/sexism would have to be toned down in game-to-movie adaptations, and it seems like in most cases it just got worse.
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 21:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
stfu
― turds (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 22 April 2013 00:46 (1 month ago) Permalink
Actual pandas are not even bears, which makes this more confusing
― Dr. Adorbius (mh), Monday, 22 April 2013 03:32 (1 month ago) Permalink
Red pandas, I mean. Which I think means they're communist
― Dr. Adorbius (mh), Monday, 22 April 2013 03:33 (1 month ago) Permalink
Or native American.
― how's life, Monday, 22 April 2013 10:29 (1 month ago) Permalink
who judges the judges?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 22 April 2013 14:55 (1 month ago) Permalink
the Supreme Court?
― we're up all night to get picky (Noodle Vague), Monday, 22 April 2013 14:55 (1 month ago) Permalink
reread thread, guess i can see where "Seriously?" could be read as a guffaw, hope it's clear twas not meant as such
― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Monday, 22 April 2013 15:10 (1 month ago) Permalink
so there's some stupid fucking anime game (dragon's crown) (this is all i know about it) with big tittied ladies and people are mad about it, which is fine, and the penny arcade asshole weighs in:
It’s very weird to pull up a story about a game with frankly visionary art and hear why it shouldn’t exist, or to hear what I supposedly fantasize about, or what kind of power I supposedly revere, and any attempt to defend oneself from these psychotic projections or to assert that creators may create is evidence of a dark seed sprouting in the heart. It’s an incredible state of affairs. They’re not censors, though - oh, no no. You’ll understand it eventually; what you need to do is censor yourself.
i just... hate this guy. this like george will smugness. it enrages me.
― adam, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:20 (1 month ago) Permalink
why am i even posting about penny arcade. we all know.
― adam, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:21 (1 month ago) Permalink
did this go unmentioned at the time? just started playing saboteur. the free-with-purchase dlc adds... tits.
― goole, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:24 (1 month ago) Permalink
afaict it adds no 'real' game content, but makes all the burlesque showgirls topless. jfc.
― goole, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:25 (1 month ago) Permalink
yo is that game any good? i got it for like a dollar but haven't even booted it up
― adam, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:29 (1 month ago) Permalink
concept, variety of activity, mission design (so far): good!story, v/o, etc: average-to-poor. depends on your tolerance for one euro accent after another.visuals, gameplay: average for 09, pretty dated now
― goole, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:36 (1 month ago) Permalink
goole that is terrible but I can't stop laughing
― Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:36 (1 month ago) Permalink
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/03/the-saboteur-day-one-dlc-unlocks-nudity-self-loathing/
sorry, it also adds "new Parisian hiding spots, [and] a new minigame"
― goole, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 18:37 (1 month ago) Permalink
there are lots of good reasons to hate oneself, but pixelated titties? eh
― Nhex, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 19:40 (1 month ago) Permalink
are the new parisian hiding spots in breasts?
― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:12 (1 month ago) Permalink
no, those are exposed
― Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:13 (1 month ago) Permalink
"dragon's crown" is pretty bad as far as the fantasy title stakes go
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:42 (1 month ago) Permalink
i keep trying to think of a similarly useless (fantasy noun + possessive marker + fantasy noun) name but they all end up making more sense. chimeara's sword. orc's ring. goblin's robes. wtf does a dragon even want a crown for. mb he is ruling over other dragons, nm, is there a kingdom of dragons in this game, that could rule
someone posted some of the concept art upthread but it's been occluded by the whole panda thing
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:44 (1 month ago) Permalink
i like vanillaware generally
― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:45 (1 month ago) Permalink
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:48 (1 month ago) Permalink
generally
― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:53 (1 month ago) Permalink
i mean it looks like a fun game?
did they run this feature before or after guy put his foot in his mouth i wonder
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/you-dont-like-breasts-you-must-like-men-the-disappointing-conversation-and
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:54 (1 month ago) Permalink
dont read the comments dont read the comments why do i always read the comments
― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 22:58 (1 month ago) Permalink
so for a game that does not come out for three months there is a hell of a lot of porn of this
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Wednesday, 24 April 2013 23:01 (1 month ago) Permalink
... that walking gif looks kinda great actually
― Nhex, Wednesday, 24 April 2013 23:29 (1 month ago) Permalink
The hell is going on with the lumpy, horse-shaped amazon lady with a tiny head in that PA article thom posted? wtffff.
― It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Thursday, 25 April 2013 01:02 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Coming this fall: R. Dragon's Crumb
― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 25 April 2013 01:06 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
ha, exactly!
― Nhex, Thursday, 25 April 2013 01:46 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
i mean, i imagine an adventurer would get to have some pretty major thighs going on at some point. it's kind of funny kind of sad that the artist decided to exaggerate that to the level of fetish also?
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Thursday, 25 April 2013 01:56 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
horsey
― mh, Thursday, 25 April 2013 01:57 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
"Let's step back from the social justice aspect of this kind of artwork and deal with the fact that 9 year-old girls find it stupid. I'd love for her to see games and want to be these women, not simply recoil at the fact that they're designed for my eyes more than her power fantasies."
Wtf, this is exactly what the social justice aspect is!
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 25 April 2013 07:37 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
it is and it isn't.
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Thursday, 25 April 2013 17:39 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
i. i think this is a good case for why 'casual racism and sexism are more accepted in video games than other media' is a bad way of phrasing the argument vs. something like 'more visible in video games than other media'. -- like, having sexed-up fantasy figures turned up to such a ridic degree makes it more obvious and undeniable that something's going on, that there is a problem here that needs addressing.
ii. kind of sad compared to previous form; a couple gay girls i know thought odin sphere was really amazing w/ the fairy princess types just whaling on guys and beating the shit out of them
iii. huh, i wanna play odin sphere
― the bitcoin comic (thomp), Thursday, 25 April 2013 17:47 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
its on psn
― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 April 2013 17:50 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
i got it on sale on PSN a few weeks ago, been meaning to crack it
― Nhex, Thursday, 25 April 2013 18:05 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
― turds (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:29 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
weirdly into that
― resulting paste of mashed cheez poops (silby), Thursday, 25 April 2013 22:30 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Reminding me weirdly of some awesome Greek mythology picture books I devoured as a kid.
― Doctor Casino, Friday, 26 April 2013 03:34 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Somehow more erotic than his woman pics
― mh, Friday, 26 April 2013 04:06 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
This guy really might have a future in dude-on-dude art
None of them looks mysteriously like a horse
― mh, Friday, 26 April 2013 04:07 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
i would play a game like that, maybe based on the three kingdoms
― 乒乓, Friday, 26 April 2013 11:51 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
that is making me nostalgic for Dragon Force
― Call me at **BITCOIN (DJP), Friday, 26 April 2013 13:41 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
wm blake + zangief + bear porn
― goole, Friday, 26 April 2013 15:22 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
zangief and bear porn are kind of the same already i guess
yup
― Nhex, Friday, 26 April 2013 15:53 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Odin Sphere I managed to snag used at a late lamented Hollywood Video at the end of the PS2. It's worth playing.
― Hockey Drunk (kingfish), Saturday, 27 April 2013 02:35 (3 weeks ago) Permalink