― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:57 (4 years ago) Permalink
god, this sort of stuff is so precisely what lends itself so well to teenage obsession - the story doesn't just contain the story but all these rabbithole back stories which are unwritten (by collins) but fascinating to think about
i actually thought the opposite while reading it, at least in comparison to JK Rowling (who of course wrote hundreds of pages of backstory that were never used). Collins didn't seem to immerse herself in her own universe as much; half the tributes were never given names or characteristics and the world itself isn't terrifically defined. honestly, the Careers are better characterized in the film. some of this is the difference between fantasy and dystopian sci-fi i guess, but some of it just doesn't reflect well on the author.
otoh, the book is very good at creating implications without having katniss outright say them. i was split on her character -- half the time she's either unconvincingly poor (ie written by someone who didn't really work very hard at making her life of hunger very convincing) or she's quite convincing as typical member of an oppressed society, in that she isn't some magical figure who sees through all the bullshit when everyone else doesn't. one of the best things that happens towards the end is katniss thinking about how, if she wins, she'll be doomed to taking up Haymitch's mantle and mentoring kids every year; at that point, you have to realize how good of a mentor she would be and how far she's come since the initial train ride to the capitol. she's clearly come to understand the game and how to win it. and then you realize how arbitrary it is, that all of her character development has happened within the arena (literally and figuratively) of this arbitrary game that has no real value to anyone outside the capitol. sort of a brilliant move on Collins' part imo
anyway i'll stop the armchair book critic stuff now
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Thursday, 29 March 2012 17:58 (4 years ago) Permalink
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:57 PM (13 minutes ago)
this is awesome. plus she's gonna make out pretty good on performance royalties.
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Thursday, 29 March 2012 18:13 (4 years ago) Permalink
between that and the steve reich it's definitely one of the cooler soundtracks ive heard in years
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 30 March 2012 15:37 (4 years ago) Permalink
i thought this was pretty okay. it had some good themes and jlaw has star quality. seems like a good thing for kids to be into
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 30 March 2012 15:38 (4 years ago) Permalink
also good training for apocalpyse scenarios, zombie or otherwise
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 30 March 2012 15:41 (4 years ago) Permalink
Further on Laurie Spiegel and "Sediment" (and royalties):
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 March 2012 21:03 (4 years ago) Permalink
And if you (like me) haven't seen the film but would like to see the scene and hear how the music was used...
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 30 March 2012 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink
Funny review from bassist extraordinaire Tony Levin (!):
The Hunger Games: (and Catching Fire, Mockingjay) by Suzanne Collins *** Not bad... why is it that young adult books are sometimes the most fun reads? And I had to check out the movie, of course, in case it was as good as the book. Not bad, but not great at all. Jiggly camera technique made me want to walk out. Will books someday include jiggly camera elements? "She ran through the forest, clutching her bow, while she and the whole forest jiggled up and down, making you the reader a bit nauseous. Then she stopped to rest, but everything continued to jiggle and twitch."
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 April 2012 16:16 (4 years ago) Permalink
― these pretzels are makeing me horney (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 30 April 2012 20:17 (4 years ago) Permalink
assume you have a 5 year old daughter with one hit point left whose life depends on your selection.
― Mordy, Monday, 30 April 2012 20:43 (4 years ago) Permalink
And the reason why showing off-- or, as the movie ever so subtly puts it, "showing them up"-- is so important is that women still secretly believe they are inferior to men. I know most of you aren't going to want to hear that, and, indeed, the vast majority of you will woefully willfully misquote me as having said, "women are inferior to men," but that's because your brain is broken. I read the book. You need to read with a highlighter.
yeah idk this is pretty terrible
― Mordy, Monday, 30 April 2012 20:45 (4 years ago) Permalink
did this person read the followup books as well as The Hunger Games, because the overriding theme of the story has absolutely nothing to do with patriarchal oppresion and everything to do with power being a corrupting force
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Monday, 30 April 2012 20:50 (4 years ago) Permalink
hey ladies, u only think katniss is a badass bc u secretly believe u are inferior to men, u know who is a real badass? this character:
― Mordy, Monday, 30 April 2012 20:52 (4 years ago) Permalink
I mean, in the context of the story, Katniss's blatant impotence is pretty much the point; she's a 16-year-old girl who has been pulled into a meat grinder, much like the other kids.
Also the whole thing about Thresh being retarded is some hardcore "look into a mirror" shit
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Monday, 30 April 2012 20:53 (4 years ago) Permalink
"Do you know why Thresh doesn't kill Katniss but instead lets her go? Because Thresh is black."
what the fucking fuck
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 30 April 2012 20:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
Really any post that throws in a passive-aggressive "Sorry" at the end is going to be terrible.
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 30 April 2012 21:09 (4 years ago) Permalink
it's one thing to have a point of view but I don't think I've ever seen escalating "I see through the veil" rhetoric (including my own) that didn't culminate in the author proving the efficacy of his/her argument by lovingly his/her head up his/her own ass
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Monday, 30 April 2012 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
I have a hard time believing that blogger isn't actually a 15-year-old.
― Meanwhile, on some cars... (Austerity Ponies), Tuesday, 1 May 2012 15:04 (4 years ago) Permalink
ugh these books are SO ANNOYING
― max, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
i sort of agree but my sister loves them and is like the hunger games-whisperer and has a real point of view about them and is so eloquent in their defense that she's kind of worn me down.
the movie was horrible, though.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:16 (4 years ago) Permalink
yeah the more distance i get from the movie, the worse it seems to me. and from what i understand the rest of the books are all much worse than the first one??
― Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:19 (4 years ago) Permalink
i thought the second book was terrible, third book is absolutely bizarre and actually kind of redeemed the trilogy for me in some weird way, just by being so stubbornly weird
― max, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:21 (4 years ago) Permalink
i'm not sure what max's beef is. none of them are particularly well-written. the first and the last ones do the thing my sister likes the best, which is basically testify to the truth that all social order is founded on violence. earlier in this thread i said i liked the last book because it's the political one but truthfully this series is kind of apolitical, which is baffling to me. my sister and i get in arguments about this, and she's always like, look, susan collins is an army brat, if you want a revolutionary dystopian young adult novel you have to write it yourself. but still, it seems like a missed opportunity.
the second one is probably the weakest.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:22 (4 years ago) Permalink
my sister likes how katniss is a battered shell at the end of the third one because that's what war does. she resents that rape is not depicted as a war crime in the books, though, which might give you some sense of the intensity of the perspective she brings to these books.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:26 (4 years ago) Permalink
i should just invite my sister to this thread; she has a lot of thoughts4u
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:27 (4 years ago) Permalink
the third book i think is hamstrung by that goddamned first-person present-tense narration. important events and potentially interesting character moments are just narrated-past willy-nilly, when otherwise they might be good opportunities for world-building and character shading. and while i can see the validity of saying "catatonic katniss works because it reflects the realities of war," it annoys me because collins isn't very good at reflecting other "realities" -- like the relationship between katniss and her family. imo it becomes an amateurish scribble after the first book, there is no nuance to how prim/the mom deal with their sudden wealth/change in status or how everything that happens changes the way katniss relates to them.
― the minister of RAILWAYS (reddening), Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:47 (4 years ago) Permalink
yeah, collins really drops the ball on primm as a character after the first novel
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:48 (4 years ago) Permalink
my sister says the books should be adapted in a band of bros-style miniseries, btw, not three movies.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:49 (4 years ago) Permalink
all three are brought way down by first-person present tense
― of family bonds and individual triumph. Narrated by Tim Allen, (zachlyon), Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:52 (4 years ago) Permalink
xp i doubt 1/3 of a miniseries would've made anyone $400 million
― of family bonds and individual triumph. Narrated by Tim Allen, (zachlyon), Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:54 (4 years ago) Permalink
yeah i mean it's an impractical suggestion for sure. she was really mad after we saw the movie. i just feel like all opinions i had on these books have been replaced by her very strong feelings.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 20 May 2012 23:56 (4 years ago) Permalink
I keep getting asked at work if I have read these books.
I guess that's better than family members telling me I should read Twilight.
― tokyo rosemary, Monday, 21 May 2012 00:06 (4 years ago) Permalink
let's throw fifty shades of grey into the matrix too
― remy bean, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:08 (4 years ago) Permalink
i mean http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/fifty-shades-of-grey-wayback-machine_b49124
― remy bean, Monday, 21 May 2012 02:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
i want to read horseshoe's sister's thoughts4u!
― liberté, égalité, beyoncé (lex pretend), Monday, 21 May 2012 10:45 (4 years ago) Permalink
not bovd about the books but the film disappointed, chris nolan kinda thing of good premise and strong exposition thwarted and retrospectively diminished by lack of basic action film competence - series of set pieces but no sense of rising tension, like at the finale where its abruptly down to three and you had little idea, and then drably petering out ahead of the doubtless already-in production sequel
guess if they'd called it "hunger games part i" some of that would have been ameliorated but even still its no less unacceptable to overlook the satisfactions of a standalone film imo. old man shaking his fist @ cloud at this point though i know
― r|t|c, Monday, 21 May 2012 11:32 (4 years ago) Permalink
it's not even action film competence tbh, i mean these are basic film values in whatever
― r|t|c, Monday, 21 May 2012 11:35 (4 years ago) Permalink
i guess i found the books partic. annoying because there are all these flashes of good and interesting ideas that get completely lost in collins terrible writing and characterization.
― max, Monday, 21 May 2012 15:23 (4 years ago) Permalink
thomp otm upthread about her exposition, christ
It's strange to me that this series is held up as being well written or more quality than Twilight when it's not. I mean, some of the ideas in the series might be more interesting than a girl mooning over a virgin vampire but what's the point when they're not executed in a satisfying or thoughtful way?
― Respectfully, Tyrese Gibson (Nicole), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:29 (4 years ago) Permalink
I didn't think these books were terribly written, or at the very least the concept was interesting enough that the writing style didn't get in my way.
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:31 (4 years ago) Permalink
i mean dont get me wrong, i finished them, but collins needs to stop telling and start showing
― max, Monday, 21 May 2012 15:35 (4 years ago) Permalink
Eh, not really.
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:39 (4 years ago) Permalink
― max, Monday, 21 May 2012 15:43 (4 years ago) Permalink
nah max otm, even some minor changes would've strengthened the books considerably while retaining the cool parts of the plot. like when katniss and peeta toured all the districts at the start of catching fire, it would've been greatly improved if it had been like 30% more showing what the different districts were like, and 30% less katniss talking about all the different outfits cinna made for her and having night terrors unless she sleeps in peeta's arms.
― producer / dj / humanitarian (reddening), Monday, 21 May 2012 16:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
The main point, though, is that Katniss isn't paying attention to the various districts because she's so preoccupied with appeasing the mayor to protect her family, plus she kind of didn't give a shit about any of the other tributes besides Rue so why should she she give a shit about their districts?
I mean, what you're talking about would be an interesting story, possibly even a more interesting one, but it's not actually the story being told, which is how Katniss is massively self-involved and mostly non-observant to the forces pushing her around like a chess piece until late into the third book.
― I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Monday, 21 May 2012 17:00 (4 years ago) Permalink
i saw the movie w/ my wife, who's read the books, and coming out of the theater the #1 thing that bothered me about the movie turned out to be one of the things that according to her was changed the most from the book -- that District 11 rioting after Rue dies thing was apparently not in the book? felt kind of forced and tacked on even before i knew that.
― some dude, Monday, 21 May 2012 17:06 (4 years ago) Permalink
iirc it happens, but you dont learn that it happens until book 2?
― max, Monday, 21 May 2012 17:07 (4 years ago) Permalink