i'm sure if katniss and rue were the last two katniss would kill herself though. it never really deals with the moment allies have to turn into enemies -- that would've been real interesting from the baddie crowd. (and again, if cato and the rest of them were turned into roy batty figures instead of just that disposable "this is all i know how to do!!" line, they would've gotten some humanity to them. maybe the book humanizes them more.)
one thing i liked is that katniss isn't some magical hero-who-sees-the-light figure (in this book at least). i'm always prepared for the young hero to make silly "CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO US!?!?" monologues and then destroying the system, but nope. no matter how heroic and goodhearted she is, she's still just another kid playing their game.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Sunday, 25 March 2012 13:17 (1 year ago) Permalink
All I know is that the Hunger Games, the TV show, must be the most boring required viewing ever. Like when Katniss is asleep for two days? Or Team Asshole is just camping by the river or whatever? Not riveting.
lol josh you can easily sub in big brother w/r/t this complaint and yet that era happened to us!
― lex pretend, Sunday, 25 March 2012 13:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
(and again, if cato and the rest of them were turned into roy batty figures instead of just that disposable "this is all i know how to do!!" line, they would've gotten some humanity to them. maybe the book humanizes them more.)
i understand the sequels feature former "career" tributes in more depth, so maybe that happens then
But Big Brother is not required viewing! If our dystopian future included mandatory Big Brother viewing, the entire population would either be up in arms after a season or two or suicidal.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 25 March 2012 14:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
One thing I'm curious about is what else the people at home watch - like is the rest of the programming Panem's Next Top Garishly Coloured Model, or Food Tips for Bark and Small Rodents? Or is that the only thing actually broadcast all year?
(MILD SPOILER)There's a whole thing in Mockingjay about the propaganda aired regarding District 13.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Sunday, 25 March 2012 15:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
BTW, I'm kind of fascinated that Jennifer Lawrence has become this lightning rod for body politics. Like, people calling her too "big boned" or whatever for this role. And then I just read (and maybe this is old news) that the reason she did that skeezy Esquire spread was to prove to apparently many doubters that she could be sexual post-"Winter's Bone," which is what got her the "X-Men" role, which surely helped her land this tentpole opportunity. Just weird all around, and kind of cruel, this oddly Zeitgeisty debate. Lawrence does "Winter's Bone" and people say she can't be hot. Then she does "Hunger Games," and people call her fat. I'm worried she's either going to be a tough as nails adult or go off the deep end.
Does the book specify Katniss as model-thin?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 25 March 2012 16:32 (1 year ago) Permalink
"Almost all of the boys and at least half of the girls are bigger than I am, even though many of the tributes have never been fed properly. ... I may be smaller naturally, but overall my family's resourcefulness has given me an edge in that area. I stand straight, and while I'm thin, I"m strong. The meat and plants from the woods combined with the exertion it took to get them have given me a healthier body than most of those I see around me."
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Sunday, 25 March 2012 16:46 (1 year ago) Permalink
Xp I feel there was some mention of fat people=rich, thin people=poor, but Katniss is also a hunter! She/her family get by fairly well between that and the many extra times her name is in the draw for grain, so her (very tiny, model thin with boobs) size is pretty reasonable. Of course I'm a fat old lady so what do I know. She runs pretty well for Hollywood Obese :*(
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Sunday, 25 March 2012 16:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
Too bad I can't see what gets posted when I'm typing in Zing! Well quoted jaymc.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Sunday, 25 March 2012 16:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
holy shit that's some awkward prose
― Number None, Sunday, 25 March 2012 16:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
MILD BUT VAGUE SPOILER Book readers - what will they do with Rue's district's riot now that they pulled it out of her tour? I hope they won't skip that altogether - I wanted to see all the districts.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Sunday, 25 March 2012 16:51 (1 year ago) Permalink
basically any discussion about a woman's body is going to be cruel iirc
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Sunday, 25 March 2012 17:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
and the "fat people rich thin people poor" idea is so antiquated i can't defend any story taking place in the present or future using it.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Sunday, 25 March 2012 17:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
Okay, wtf is actually "awkward" about that prose?
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
So basically Katniss in the book is a typical late bloomer girl, sort of skinny and awkward? Regardless, it's not like she looks like some hulk in the movie. Maybe they should have given her mountain teeth again?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:21 (1 year ago) Permalink
Never read the book, but there's a literal-mindedness of that paragraph that does scan weird. "My family's resourcefulness has given me an edge in that area" just doesn't sound like anything anyone would ever say or think. It's like what someone pointed out way upthread with some character exclaiming "OMG, killer mutant bees genetically engineered by the government!" Like, everyone would know what they are so they don't need to be described except for the sake of the reader. Same with that "I am thin but stand straight, for I have foraged and eaten healthily" stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
Just an observation, why someone would find it awkward.
the whole book is like that. just plain, lifeless, over-explanatory prose. collins seems like the type of writer who would have to be convinced not to write exact mathematical measurements of things in lieu of actually describing them.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Sunday, 25 March 2012 18:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
you'll have to overlook the "high schooler writing for huffpo" thing, but this is a pretty interesting article. i was joking before about "making katniss white" but i had no idea that there's been a lot of debate over her race within the fandom. lawrence was great, but it would've been good to see a POC in that role.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Sunday, 25 March 2012 19:38 (1 year ago) Permalink
what sucks isn't that they cast jennifer lawrence, who is absolutely fantastic, but that they limited the casting call to white actresses. wtf.
iirc i read somewhere that JL is from appalachia (ie where district 12 is supposed to be)? you might see that as positive representation, or maybe a reason she could capture the character so well.
(i wasn't familiar with JL prior to the film, didn't know what she "really" looked at, and would not necessarily have guessed she was 100% caucasian.)
― lex pretend, Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:14 (1 year ago) Permalink
some coverage from when the debate happened:
― rayuela, Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:24 (1 year ago) Permalink
the scene if the opening f the hunger games was legit jarring and then the Steve reich music came in and I was like c'mon are u tryina hit all my emotional buttons
― arsenio and old ma$e (m bison), Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
i had no idea it was steve reich! that was the best bit of the film, gave me high hopes about the rest of the Games scenes, but alas.
xp to lex: i'm not sure it's relevant to mention the actual geography in relation to today's demographics. i don't know what year the book takes place in but it sounds like centuries have passed since north america was a thing. following current trends you'd expect there to be much much fewer white people throughout the entire country regardless of where different racial demos are concentrated (though you'd expect that to change too).
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Sunday, 25 March 2012 20:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
can't believe I'm writing this, but... denby is OTM. surely the end is nigh.
But the rest of “The Hunger Games” is pretty much a disaster—disjointed, muffled, and even, at times, boring. Collins herself labored on the script, along with Gary Ross and Billy Ray, and Ross (“Pleasantville,” “Seabiscuit”) directed. Working with the cinematographer Tom Stern, Ross shoots in a style that I have come to despise. A handheld camera whips nervously from one angle to another; the fragments are then jammed together without any regard for space. You feel like you’ve been tossed into a washing machine (don’t sit in the front rows without Dramamine). Even when two people are just talking calmly, Ross jerks the camera around. Why? As the sense of danger increases, he has nothing to build toward. Visually, he’s already gone over the top. And the action itself is a thrashing, incoherent blur—kids tumbling on the ground or wrestling with each other. Katniss stalks various kids with her bow and arrow, but she kills only one intentionally—a domineering sadist—and you don’t see the arrow hit him; you don’t even see him fall. Ross consistently drains away all the tensions built into the grisly story—the growing wariness and suspicion that each teen-ager must feel as the number of those still alive begins to diminish, or the horror (or glee) that some of them experience as they commit murder. The camera rushes through the wilderness, but, in the end, the movie looks less like a fight to the death than like a scavenger hunt. Katniss is always finding something useful in a tree or lying on the ground.
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 22:58 (1 year ago) Permalink
this was good, jerky camera aside, and j-lawr is a total movie star, she's amazing
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
^^ agree with all of this except "it was good"
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
i wasn't particularly bothered by the jerky-cam like a lot of ppl, or at least i don't recall ever being like "whoa, dude, chill out with that"
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
you literally couldn't see anything during the action scenes. It was like Bourne times a million
― Number None, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
honestly during the initial bloodbath i was pretty glad for that
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah i said upthread it was probably partly deliberate cos kids killing each other and everything. Still annoying though
― Number None, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:48 (1 year ago) Permalink
much bigger problem during the action scenes is that when peetah and that vicious psychopath kid were fighting at the end they looked so much alike i couldn't tell who was who (blonde buff young caucasians all look the same to me i guess)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
ok yeah actually i remember that being annoying
― y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
You know, I like Gary Ross, and I think he's a really smart guy, but he was probably the wrong person to make this.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 23:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:03 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― catbus otm (gbx), Thursday, 29 March 2012 02:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
just learned that the girl who played the district 1 tribute (spoiler: the one thresh kills) was the (spoiler) "little girl" in Orphan. i'm old and losing touch with just how quickly teenagers age.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Thursday, 29 March 2012 03:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
also one of the boy tributes is a quaid
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Thursday, 29 March 2012 03:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
whoa like dennis or randy's kid?
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:11 (1 year ago) Permalink
The shakycam only bothered me in the first, introductory segments. That said, Ross clearly isn't much of an action director. But the non-action segments were handled with reasonable proficiency. (Basically, I concur w/ s1ocki's assessment.)
― Simon H., Thursday, 29 March 2012 04:35 (1 year ago) Permalink
jack quaid, son of dennis quaid and meg ryan, as spearboy
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Thursday, 29 March 2012 05:28 (1 year ago) Permalink
also foxface was in Dev2.0!
The song "Beautiful World" remains mostly unchanged until the end, where the words, "It's a beautiful world for you/It's not for me" have been changed to "It's a beautiful world for you/I guess me too". In addition, the bridge lyrics "Boy and girl with the new clothes on/You can shake it to me all night long hey hey" have been changed to "Boy and girl with the new clothes on/You can pose and party all day long hey hey".
Additionally, the song "The Winner" is a re-recording with new lyrics of "If the Shoe Fits" by Jihad Jerry & the Evildoers. The anti-George W. Bush sentiment was replaced by a song about perseverance and thinking for oneself.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Thursday, 29 March 2012 05:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark
otm. he's pretty decent at the non-action scenes, and in bigging up the political elements, but ugh he couldn't come up with anything better to circumnavigate the R rating this material deserves?
i think it was a cop-out in regards to Katniss dealing with the morality of the situation (she didn't have to kill anyone decent, and the bad were hilariously awful with their maniacal laughter). I think the sequels can be better though. I've never read the books so I don't know anything about how it all turns out. I know they won't but I hope they nix the love triangle, because that just looks like pain.
― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, 29 March 2012 08:06 (1 year ago) Permalink
just finished the first book. the prose gets a bit better but only because you start to internalize how strange everything is. the love story with peeta, and the confusion there, i think is actually sort of brilliant in the book. of course katniss is unbearably dense about his true feelings, but it's still an interesting dynamic. the movie sacrifices it mostly because unless they had JLaw narrating everything it would've been hard to actually express her confusion/assumptions.
and re: above, it's actually implied in the book that the career tributes (esp cato) are unhinged and slightly maniacal, presumably because of their upbringing.
― JIM THOMETHEUS (zachlyon), Thursday, 29 March 2012 09:05 (1 year ago) Permalink
Took my daughter to see it yesterday. She's 11. She loved it, I thought it was way above par for a film aimed at early teens. (Have not read books btw.)
I don't have any problem with the non-ramping up of the glee of killing, or the fear of death, nor with the actual action being subdued. If they'd done anything else it wouldn't have been a film 11-15 year olds could have actually got in to see. The film isn't meant to be a telling meditation of human cruelty, it's meant to be an exciting film for teenagers with JUST ENOUGH meditation of human cruelty to give it a point. I thought it succeeded on those terms.
xpost I wondered how they would deal with Katniss having to kill people. I'm just pleased they actually managed it. I thought she'd somehow scrape through without having to actually kill anyone. What did you expect, given she's the heroine and she clearly has a moral code? That she'd go on a WTF killing spree? The rules of storytelling mean she is not allowed to do that, otherwise she could no longer be the heroine? So killing only psychos, and helping the good but being unable to prevent their deaths seemed to me to be a reasonable compromise.
― Viva Brother Beyond (ithappens), Thursday, 29 March 2012 09:25 (1 year ago) Permalink
i could tell them apart but this was the only time the shakeycam got annoying for me too, because it was so jerky that you couldn't tell what katniss actually shot such that she'd hit cato without him taking peeta with him.
(i looked it up afterwards, she shoots cato's hand so he's forced to release peeta as he falls backwards.)
― lex pretend, Thursday, 29 March 2012 09:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
The scene in the book is impressively hardcore, where they spend several hours trying not to slip off the cornucopia and being cold and hungry and pretty much near death, and after Cato falls there's, like, several more hours of him fighting and the dogs chewing him up. I think it's like next morning when they realise that they haven't heard the death-cannon and then Katniss fires a mercy arrow at the shambling hulk in the mouth of the cornucopia.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 29 March 2012 10:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
Also in the books, the dogs contained the souls(?) of the dead contestants - Katniss notices Glimmer's eyes are in one that's chasing her, etc. Wish they'd tried a little harder to give them the contestants' characteristics, could've been kind of trippy.
― she started dancing to that (Finefinemusic), Thursday, 29 March 2012 12:49 (1 year ago) Permalink
god, this sort of stuff is so precisely what lends itself so well to teenage obsession - the story doesn't just contain the story but all these rabbithole back stories which are unwritten (by collins) but fascinating to think about
― lex pretend, Thursday, 29 March 2012 13:33 (1 year ago) Permalink
i'm sure the fanfic community are on it though
I think the dogs are just genetically modified to resemble the previous contestants and freak the surviving ones out - it's a great creepy detail, but you can see that it'd be jumping up and down yelling "cut me! cut meeeee!" at the first script rewrite.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 29 March 2012 13:52 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah, w/o 1st-person narration, it'd be hard to indicate exactly what the deal was.
― Cuba Pudding, Jr. (jaymc), Thursday, 29 March 2012 14:01 (1 year ago) Permalink