GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

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totally dug tiny furniture

max, Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

i sympathized with most of the characters in tiny furniture? i mean they did a lot of stupid shit but no one was really hateful, besides i guess the two guys.

max, Saturday, 24 March 2012 20:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm seriously hyped about this; she's way funnier and more clever than she has any right to be.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

i also got a little crush on her y cuz she's smart

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Watched Tiny Furniture on the weekend. It's the kind of thing i normally hate but she won me over by the end.

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 15:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

tiny furniture is pretty interesting. i thought it would be funny but kinda frothy, and instead i thought it said some pretty interesting things, way more than it was an amusing film. like (SPOILERS, I GUESS) the more it committed to refusing the sweet narrative arc you'd expect to unkink & take over - her remembering how lovely Frankie was, or arriving at some kind of agreeable romantic situation - the more it seemed like good, lacerating, self-loathing criticism of dumb, shortsighted early life blundering.

the nyer profile from a while back is good reading also

john-claude van donne (schlump), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

just watched 'tiny furniture' and was surprised by how much i (and especially my gf) enjoyed it.

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

the pipe scene was the clincher

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, agreed.
the pat on the thigh from spent dude was just painfully real.

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

i channel surfed through Tiny Furniture for a few minutes recently and could barely stand it, the direction/acting was like kevin smith-level bad

ferrante's inferranteno (some dude), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

"In the street?"
"No, worse than that"

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

Dunham is curating a mini-fest where i work called Hey, girlfriend. bummed i missed mulholland drive last night (one of her picks)

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

at least i have seen it on the big screen b4 tho

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

twice actually!

surm, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

haven't seen any of her stuff, she's doing several days of film 'presenting' at BAM, tonight w/ Whit Stillman.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

i sympathized with most of the characters in tiny furniture?

haha me too

i saw one of the episodes on the weekend it was... idk, im p excited to watch them properly but it was a bit of a mess. theres a lot of ambivalence in general i guess

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tiny Furniture was horrific but she might do okay in a TV format. As long as she's not directing.

Simon H., Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

oops hey i missed surm's posts, sorry.

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 April 2012 16:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

some dude OTM about Tiny Furniture's filmmaking, but I also can't find it in myself to give a shit about the problems of an educated rich kid in this hard hard world of moving back into the 'rents multimillion dollar loft.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

still going to give Girls a shot, maybe there will be characters who aren't hateable

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think she's more self-aware than people who offer that criticism realize

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think she is sorta cute and seems fun and smart

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

"WKIW", as I believe you say

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Like the scene where she has the big argument with her mother and she's all "I'm 22 and i just graduated and i got my first job". I have to believe that was somewhat tongue in cheek

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think it was, or that the entire movie was one big self-aware joke at the expense of overprivileged twentysomethings... but I'm not sure that it would improve things had that been her intention.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

i like how the friend from ohio felt like a protagonist that wandered in from some other (slightly more conventional) movie

40oz of tears (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's another thing. She tells her friend a day before she moves to New York that she's not going to move in with her, avoids all her calls, blows her off at the art thing cos that dude turns up etc. It has to be a joke, right?

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

idk it's all part & parcel of being an actual horrible, spoiled 20-something

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

the character, not lena i mean

johnny crunch, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think there was a degree of self-awareness on display in Tiny Furniture, but probably not the degree of self-awareness that she might've had if she'd waited a couple more years to make it.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

Which is a lot of why I'm open to Girls being more "my thing".

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

its not a "joke" but it is "self-aware"

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah but she didn't. She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

xxp

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, she was self-aware enough to not portray her character as a completely sympathetic protagonist (see: the treatment of her friend from Ohio) but I don't know that she was as aware of her character's/her own level of privilege as I would've liked.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's certainly no less self-aware than you might hope/expect given the age and status of the filmmaker.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Why does she have to apologize to you for being rich

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I never really understand the "ugh, why would i want to watch something about rich people" criticism. I like to watch things about all kinds of people. I'm not rich btw

Number None, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

She made it when she was like 23/24 and it's pretty much ABOUT being that age.

That being the case, I almost wish it had been less self-aware and more just a document of 23/24-ness. She probably had more awareness of how ridiculous people are at that age than most people do when they actually are that age, but it still didn't seem like a terribly high level of awareness.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

am i automatically supposed to give a shit about poor people but not about rich people

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've also heard the opposite argument, the why-make-art-out-of-other-people's poverty argument that seems to suggest ALL films should be about people who are at LEAST of the same social status as the filmmaker/potential audience, which is deeply weird.

og (admrl), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's interesting that a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege translates to some as a demand for an apology or a lack of desire to see a movie about rich people. Kinda not the same thing at all.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think its really 'self-aware' but not entirely self-critical, like these are the worst impulses and decisions and stuff but its not about how terrible its just like, this is how it is

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

i tend to think that the best art is usually made about people from the same social/economic background as the filmmaker, this is not a real Rule at all but i guess im saying id rather lena dunham make this movie and whit stillman make those movies and john updike write about rabbit than have them all try to do like "menace II society" or something

max, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

OTM. Although the attempt might be horrifyingly absorbing.

1 of paper = 4 of coin (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

anyways her character is not rich, her parents are better off than average. she leaps head on into being working poor. Having the puffy white cloud of conditional support beneath you is nice, but her story seems to be about what happens when you've always had gentle hands carrying you everywhere and then the palanquin stops and you gotta figure out how to be a grown up.
the "I feel like I'm entering a really exiting period in my life right now" / "What are you talking about? Everything you own is in garbage bags on my kitchen floor" joke is very much dead on with my experience during that time and feels pretty real. sure it's privileged, but she's hyperaware of it and seems to be primed to make good stories within that space

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

a desire to see a higher level of awareness of the characters' privilege

i mean i think there are lots of parts of 'tiny furniture'/what ive seen of 'girls' thats really aware of how privileged some of the characters are but they maybe still dont know what that means, how they should deal with their comparative privilege not knowing the right tone to strike or pose to take or w/e like knowing w/o really understanding, being 22

Lamp, Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

^

wrapped sausage stylus (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

as a guy who DID move back home with his parents after college i suspect i'll find things to sympathize with here

y'tulip, y'pea-brained earwig (donna rouge), Thursday, 5 April 2012 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't really want to watch hannah try to become a teacher though. seems like it's going to be ridiculous/brutal

Treeship, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 00:41 (4 days ago) Permalink

marnie isn't so bad. she is just superficial in all ways.

― Treeship, Tuesday, February 24, 2015 4:39 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How is that not bad?

schwantz, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 00:46 (4 days ago) Permalink

i mean, there's bad and there's bad. hannah and especially jessa are narcissistic to the point of delusion and this has had disastrous consequences for other people in their lives. marnie is comparatively harmless. she is narcissistic in a way that strikes me as adolescent-like.

Treeship, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 00:53 (4 days ago) Permalink

we all know marnies, i'm sure. they're just like, people who see their lives as a really shallow movie that they are obsessed with interpreting and reinterpreting

Treeship, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 00:54 (4 days ago) Permalink

Ok, fair enough. I guess she isn't as vengeful or spiteful as Hannah/Jessa are. Still pretty narcissistic tho.

schwantz, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 01:01 (4 days ago) Permalink

i love Shosh.
butdussy.

obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 01:45 (4 days ago) Permalink

"harvard grad makes good, what an inspiring story!"

Treeship, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 01:47 (4 days ago) Permalink

Lollll

obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 02:09 (4 days ago) Permalink

Elijah also had good lines
"I had just put a bid in on 16 acres"

obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 02:11 (4 days ago) Permalink

I love how Elijah constantly spouts all this really weird shit that is amusing in its zaniness and then completely falls apart when you imagine Elijah as a character actually following through w/ these things off camera

Like I don't mean that as a critique, I just enjoy it. It's like there's a secret ~productive~ Elijah running around

gybe horses (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 17:12 (4 days ago) Permalink

Doesn't it seem odd how few characters there are on the show (any?) who aren't completely narcissistic and self-obsessed?

walid foster dulles (man alive), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 18:54 (4 days ago) Permalink

I can't think of one

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 18:56 (4 days ago) Permalink

Laird maybe

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 18:57 (4 days ago) Permalink

those are the defining traits for mid-20 yr olds so, no

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 19:00 (4 days ago) Permalink

it's funny, i didn't get on board with the show until i took it as a sloppy collection of moments that are tonally inconsistent and regularly undercut established character work that still manages to be amusing and occasionally cutting for 30 minutes, like they made a soap opera out of the discreet charm of the bourgeoisie. so it couldn't really go haywire or down the wrong road unless i stopped enjoying the actors.

da croupier, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 19:14 (4 days ago) Permalink

ike they made a soap opera out of the discreet charm of the bourgeoisie.

holy. shit.

this is such a brilliant summary.

gybe horses (Stevie D(eux)), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 19:15 (4 days ago) Permalink

i also watch the show to learn new annoyed sounds from adam that i can make during my commute

da croupier, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 19:16 (4 days ago) Permalink

stop fucking murdering buñuel you charlatans

vacuum head tree disease (imago), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 19:19 (4 days ago) Permalink

Lena Duñuel

Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 20:06 (4 days ago) Permalink

Watched a few episodes of S4 last night, I think the first scene I've actually enjoyed of this show was Dunham's takedown of her fellow MFAs.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 20:49 (4 days ago) Permalink

croup otm

SO otm

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 25 February 2015 22:59 (4 days ago) Permalink

rattlesnake cowgirl
heart for sale
whoa wow wonderful
song for marcus garvey
oaxaca blues
kokopeli shelly

that's top six right there

slam dunk, Thursday, 26 February 2015 04:02 (3 days ago) Permalink

loooool

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 26 February 2015 04:03 (3 days ago) Permalink

desi is the worst. so perfectly, punchably realized

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 26 February 2015 04:08 (3 days ago) Permalink

Haha I know. As awful and overblown as these characters seem sometimes, I have met all of them (except Shosh! Who is the best anyway) to a tee in real life, and I still have a hard time believing they exist like that.

obliquity of the ecliptic (rrrobyn), Thursday, 26 February 2015 04:37 (3 days ago) Permalink

yeah like they are broad strokes caricatures but the tiny details are well-observed enough to make them seem somehow familiar

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 26 February 2015 04:56 (3 days ago) Permalink

i'm a year behind, like Gaby Hoffmann as Adam's batshit mess sister

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 February 2015 04:58 (3 days ago) Permalink

she's so good

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 26 February 2015 05:06 (3 days ago) Permalink

Loved this week's abortion plotline and the Adam/Mimi-Rose relationship in general.

Desi is the magnificent worst. His misplaced snobbery about She & Him was perfect.

Minaj moron (Re-Make/Re-Model), Thursday, 26 February 2015 10:09 (3 days ago) Permalink

back to s3: Ray-Marnie ridiculous as a zipless fuck, let alone a couple for any length of time. Sub-Dawson's Creek.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 February 2015 17:12 (3 days ago) Permalink

tho it does recall Judy Tenuta's line "Did you ever start dating someone, instead of committing suicide?"

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 February 2015 17:13 (3 days ago) Permalink

lol

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 26 February 2015 20:14 (3 days ago) Permalink

ok, the second half of the third season got a LOT better. The biggest shocker was that Shoshanna bacame more than a cartoon (or a deeper one). She was great drunkenly ripping everyone to shreds in the Beach House ep, and then incredibly moving making her plea to Ray in the finale. Z Mamet has my respect.

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 February 2015 12:38 (2 days ago) Permalink

she's kind of my favourite character in s4

IHeartMedia, the giant broadcaster formerly known as Clear Channel, (stevie), Friday, 27 February 2015 12:41 (2 days ago) Permalink

definitely

difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 February 2015 15:21 (2 days ago) Permalink

and then incredibly moving making her plea to Ray in the finale.

agree that this was one of the few moments in this show that felt emotionally real, almost to a disturbing degree

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 February 2015 16:39 (2 days ago) Permalink

Mixed feelings about Girls (and S4). Notably not enjoying this season (so far) as much as others; considering giving up on it.

Yet I do want to give Dunham credit for something I'm not sure has been much discussed. There's a lot of cartoonishness in Girls. But (in all seasons) the depiction of male/ female sexual relationships has a surprising complexity, nuance, even courage. (Much of the charge of the previous seasons is the unfolding complexity of Hannah's and Adam's relationship.)

E.g. abortion in last episode. No matter how one as tv watcher reacted to the early scene (whether you feel Adam is the asshole or Mimi-Rose is the asshole; the dress is blue-black or white-gold), the episode was fair to and acknowledged both deeply felt and authentic positions.

It's ironic because Dunham's IRL messiness (e.g. memoir-ed alleged Republican rapist or sister pebbles-- on which topics I haven't read ILX) provoked opposed extreme reactions. But while (I think) Dunham is probably IRL an asshole; her fiction is nuanced and complex and (even against certain politically correct supposed "SJW" "feminist" preconceptions) brave-- just in conveying a descriptive (not prescriptive) experience from both male and female perspectives.

NB not that it makes any difference but I'm an XX female.

drash, Saturday, 28 February 2015 07:56 (Yesterday) Permalink

PS If I had to pick a "side," I'd pick Mimi-Rose. But I was also completely empathetic to Adam's POV.

I think this is an admirable skill for an author/ creator (what Bakhtin calls polyphony).

drash, Saturday, 28 February 2015 11:30 (Yesterday) Permalink


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