Rolling 'this is sexist' thread

She has a point - I saw this earlier, though, and really did feel her approach (the "fucking gross") was a shitty* one. Is she a teenager? She should know better! Wish we could do a controlled study where she instead said "I find this offensive" or something with more respectable language. /Grandma

*Hah - I'm just as bad. But I don't tweet complaints to companies, generally. I just don't buy things that anger me.

protip: don't read the comments on that storify link

eh, i think it's completely reasonable to think that women should be able to get angry & confrontational & use profanity without them being derided as unprofessional, irrational, or attention-seeking

No kidding.

To me, the issue isn't even about the video, it's about their completely idiotic response to her complaint. Yes, she probably should have phrased things differently or taken a different approach, but their reaction was completely bullshit. The response to "I think this is sexist" isn't "You are a big meany and I know your boss"

Their apology pretty much blows, too. The video was made by a woman! We have women in our office! I own another business that employs many women! None of those is "We responded inappropriately to someone on twitter"

is there a place to watch the video? it's apparently private now?

FFM do you seriously think if she had said, "I find it offensive" she would have gotten a positive response?

Responding to a criticism by criticizing the delivery of the comment is a classic way to derail a potentially legit discussion - http://derailingfordummies.com/#hostile - and it happens all the time.

elmo, mh OTM

some of my best friends are women

I am definitely a "you get more bees with honey" kind of woman, yes. I am smart enough to be aware that people will let my delivery get in the way of my message and try to conduct myself accordingly, when it's important to me.

I mean, the whole "she shouldn't use such objectionable language" is the EXACT response she got:

@shanley @rekatz I'm not cool with the angry tone regardless of the context or situation, far more professional ways to handle.
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@shanley @rekatz you could have adressed this in a far more professional way, like "hey guys, I sent you an email", yelling+cursing not cool
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Translation: stop being so uppity, woman.

the gist is, "sorry if our objectification of women offended you, but we'd be more responsive to your complaint if it were delivered in a more ladylike tone."

or, "pipe down so we can disregard you, woman."

Yup.

(N.B. I would be saying the exact same thing if a man was the typist.)

the one thing I've learned is that "I have a family" is apparently a response to anything

"Don't swear at me, I have a family"

they do come across a little like "but you know us! you know we aren't sexist! *pout*" in the midst of their rampant sexism

FFM, let's assume she was an overly hostile person and was in the wrong. Does that make their response any more right?

I also like how she didn't really call them sexist, just was asking about this video she had an objection to, and then they started doing everything they could to turn it into a debate about her character

I HAVE A FAMILY.

(N.B. I would be saying the exact same thing if a man was the typist.)

But it wasn't. It was a woman expressing a strong opinion about something she found sexist and the response was "watch your mouth, lady!" which is as much the sexist part as the video itself. Focusing on her unladylike language instead of the complaint is the problem.

I HAVE CHILDREN.

I once made the mistake of using my work email address as my contact info when cruising through a Cure-related website that had some really terrible mystery meat navigation and said so in the comments; the webmaster wrote me back an angry letter where he threatened to expose my blatant unprofessionalism to my boss because he thought I was a competing web developer trolling for business by insulting his work. I immediately told my boss and we both laughed at his dumb ass. (I also wrote back and clarified that I was a fan of the music and not a web developer.)

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY. I HAVE TWO DOGS.

YOU CAN'T TALK TO ME THAT WAY I HAVE A UTERUS.

whoa, tmi there lady. why do you have to advertise you're a woman? what an attention whore.

I see everyone the same. Men, women, ladyboys, purple people

is it poor taste for me to say the last few posts have had me in hysterics

oh man, that was subtle, a+ punchline Mr. P

Poor taste? On MY internet?

I CAN'T BE SEXIST, I HAVE A DAUGHTER.

I wonder if it would blow those dudes' minds if someone told them women can be sexist

mh: people go on the defensive when their mistakes are pointed out, his first response was fairly reasonable (could have used a sorry, maybe) in the 'we do need a new one :)' admission. You get treated how you treat others! She does identify whatever company she works for in her 'about me' section, I didn't see his mention of it as a threat to get her in trouble - I can see how people would - but twitter is an imperfect medium to have a debate about feminism.

Carl - where do they mention she's a lady? ("watch your mouth, lady!")

Er I think I lost my train of thought to mh - sorry! - I don't identify my company's name online because I feel doing so would mean that every tweet I make would be associated with them, a little bit. So if she wants to make a big deal to them about they way they are repsenting a brand, I think it's fair for them to point out that she is too. I wouldn't speak to a colleague like that. If your tweets only reflect yourself - why mention the company in your bio? Why make that link, you know?

You get treated how you treat others!

But this ISN'T TRUE, you're asserting a "truth" that is part of the problem.

twitter is an imperfect medium to have a debate about feminism.

So people should only have objections to shittiness when it's convenient for the offender? That's...convenient.

Uh, they outright said "we know your boss"

soooooo have any of u seen this video?

the onus of professionalism is on the person acting in a professional capacity, not on the complainant. i mean, i get occasional rough language & abuse from customers on the phone, but that doesn't give me any license to disregard the customer or the substance of their complaint.

xp back to me "I have a family" is pretty lol but really it all got so annoying to me I could barely bring myself to read to the end, heh.

Laurel - what I meant by imperfect medium is that trying to cram words into 140 characters can change a person's tone in a response. Like his sentence about her working for Basho coming off as a threat to her, and me needing three sentences to explain what my interpretation might have been. If she'd emailed them (where they would have unlimited characters with which to draft a response) and got no response (or a shitty response) after a day or two, maybe then twitter is the answer to raise the awareness.

And okay, maybe you don't always get treated the way you treat others but I feel my own behaviour is certainly a factor that defines how people speak to me. But some people are just jerks.

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq4whcX42G1qztjn5o1_500.jpg

the other thing to realize is that she wasn't personally attacking either of them, she was attacking a video that was related to their company! I understand they feel like their company is important but an individual accusing a company of being sexist and appealing to the leaders of that company is different from them mentioning their business connections and pulling those in the conversation.

"I, as a person, find this offensive" is not something you respond to with as "We, as a company know where you work and can tell your boss"

tbh i kinda think twitter is an ideal medium for calling ppl out on their bullshit

mh: I do see that now - I didn't before - like I said, I got online drama fatigue and started skimming. But my irritance with her approach registered loooong before that. Fuck, I would neeeever tweet at one of our clients like that (assuming if he knows, so would she.) I like my job! And I drop a lot of fucks!

@shanley @rekatz our friend wanted to do the video really bad because she is a model and she loved the brand, what's wrong with that?

"it can't be sexist, our friend WANTED to make this video"

Elmo - that's fair. But sexism is a pretty sensitive issue so I feel like restricting yourself/your combatant to 140 characters at a time is just setting yourself up to be hurt.

This professionalism talk is bullshit because the geek conference circuit, which these people are a part of, tends to be kind of sweary and this male/female dynamic is all too common. I doubt she thought she was being that off-color, and them reading it as such and acting like she's way out of line codes wrong

is there a place to watch the video? it's apparently private now?

― Mordy, Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:13 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ Mordy knows what's really up

That's fair. I don't work in the geek circuit but I do have lots of friends who do (uh oh I'm veering dangerously close here! I HAVE A FAMILY TOO!!!) but they're not the types to take that approach. LOL Canadians. I would classify myself as 1000% more crude than the ones I know, heh. I can't watch the video - it's private now - and I'm not debating whether it was sexist. I just don't believe that if an angry man tweeted at these people he wouldn't have received similar dismissal.

I gotta break myself of the phrase 'That's fair,' ugh.

https://twitter.com/#!/shanley/status/182878421133705217

now, this is just ugly

like, what are they hoping for by trying to get a bunch of people together to do this?
"hey everyone, come here so we can throw rocks at this complaining woman. or feminists, show up to throw rocks at us. we'll be there!"

is there a place to watch the video?

imagine a tech company logo on the front panel of a scantily clad lady's underpants... forever

xp Yeah that's just weird. I don't really want to defend either of these people, haha. I just want to send the world to Lex's Finishing School of Grace and Respectability. My Grandma was my professor. I still don't wear navy & black together, either.