Class, etc Pt. 2: Indie vs. Pop Culture

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threads you won't have time to read until 3 weeks from now: c/d?
(A: obviously classic, but not for 3 weeks! :( :( :( :()

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 06:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

(actually, it's probably more like Matos in not getting tongue-in-cheekiness shockah....)

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 06:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Malkmus, Callahan, Oldham - Dead White Males.

― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 07:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, Dan - I think that this thread has moved on the the third installment anyway...

But to clarify one last missing term from the gendered reading. Indie-rock has a conflicted relationship to CONSUMPTION - the idea of 'selling-out', being commercial, being pop. This is a re-staging of the well-documented dilemmas of masculinity and consumption, something you don't find in pop because of its feminine orientation.

The idea of the body - which has somewhat led the thread astray toward dancing - was more a comment on the focus of consumption, 'technologies of the self' (ugh, Foucault) that are more compatible with the chart, boy-bands and teen-queens etc...

And btw, this is a well-rehearsed position in popular cultural studies. Gender/Music criticism does not merely begin and end with Sreynolds guys!

― Michael Dieter, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 07:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Michael -- I think that's what I was saying, i.e. point needs making again and again, so broad strokes work.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 09:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

''jess sez free jazz != free improv--OTM''

not quite.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 11:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

DC records could feasibly have been chosen through a "no blues," "no jazz," "no funk" filter

Somehow those King Kong records slipped through.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 13:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

I guess Forrest Gump Funk doesn't qualify as Funk.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 13:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 15:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Me Hungry" ROX!!!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 15:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Fuck all y'all. Now I'm gonna be saying "Gump Funk" for the rest of the day.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 15:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

*runs off to start the Stalk-Forrest Gump Funk Group*

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 15:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

you're forgetting something:

indie rock has no RIGHT to "inject danceable elements" into their music, because indie dorks can't dance for shit, nobody wants to see them dance, and because they've resigned themselves to a right of cooler-than-thou inward-looking mopiness, they are therefore not ALLOWED to dance, either.

word bond.

― Mike Drach, Thursday, 24 April 2003 01:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

Dude, just because Out Hud sucks, don't take it out on everyone!

― hstencil, Thursday, 24 April 2003 01:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

is 'word bond' a line from the upcoming ice cube-pierce brosnan flick *duxx*

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 24 April 2003 01:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

What about flipping it? Why aren't more hip-hoppers injecting indie rock into their music? Why is music so segregated nowadays, with noise rock, alt-rock, math rock, emo, hip hop, garage, UK garage, etc. Why isn't there more cross-pollination of styles across the spectrum, which is usually what keeps rock vital? Say what you want about Beck, but his musical pastiches at least attempted to make things interesting and raise the bar, which is why Sea Change was so dismal (straight acoustic singer/songwriter boredom with unmemorable hooks).

― omit (omit), Thursday, 24 April 2003 03:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

b-but Linkin' Park!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 April 2003 03:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

If you think music is segregated today, talk to Little Richard about Pat Boone sometime.

― hstencil, Thursday, 24 April 2003 03:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

don't do it! it's a traaaaap!

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 24 April 2003 07:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sometimes it really seems as though a lot of you just want to live in a world where all of the music sounds the same, means the same thing, and is made for the same reasons.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 25 April 2003 14:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Sometimes it really seems as though Matthew Perpetua accuses other people on internet boards of the exact same pomposity he's been guilty of for ages now.

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 14:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

we all want music to sound like pavement. there, i said it.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 April 2003 14:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

jess, that means we all have much more in common with Matt Perpetua than he even realizes!

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 14:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

let's all hold hands and sing "forklift"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 25 April 2003 14:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Better yet:

"Wish Fulfillment"

"If I was a sick little kid, and I could have a wish granted by the Make-A-Wish Foundation, I would make them have the Neptunes produce a song with this structure: First verse, Stephen Malkmus on vocals. Second verse, Ghostface Killah. Sung chorus by Andre 3000. Third verse, Jay-Z. Chorus by Andre. Fourth verse, Mark E. Smith. Chorus by Andre, with outro vocals by Bob Pollard. And it would be amazing. I'd want the Neptunes to make a track not entirely unlike Mystikal's "Bouncin' Back", but a bit faster and bouncier."

― hstencil, Friday, 25 April 2003 14:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

i want every record ever to sound like the house crew - euphoria (nino's dream)

― gareth (gareth), Friday, 25 April 2003 15:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

four years pass...

Man, would I be like really out of line and gauche to ask SFJ to offer up some thoughts on what prompted his own band's pretty tepid and bloodless (but not altogether uninteresting) music? I mean this could be really helpful in terms of moving towards an answer to his own initial question. I mean, SFJ was there.
-- Mr. Diamond (diamond), Sunday, April 20, 2003 11:41 PM (4 years ago)

:-0

― gershy, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 02:29 (sixteen years ago) link

two months pass...

lol, i was looking for this again when that whole new yorker thing was raging.

― gershy, Sunday, 11 November 2007 17:55 (sixteen years ago) link

Sometimes it really seems as though a lot of you just want to live in a world where all of the music sounds the same, means the same thing, and is made for the same reasons.

-- Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Friday, 25 April 2003 14:12 (4 years ago) Bookmark Link