Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

yeah, exactly. it's not at all bizarre given the way descriptions of events tend to change once the legal implications become fully understood.

don't think the speculation is all that bizarre. the reporter's talking about the circumstances under which the law might protect zimmerman, and given that we don't yet have all the facts (and more importantly, haven't heard the arguments presented by zimmerman's still-hypothetical defense team), it doesn't seem unreasonable to speculate.

― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:57 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I guess? But nothing about the circumstances to me suggests that explanation as a possibility. Teenager scared that he is being followed in a gated community where he doesn't live decides to turn and confront the guy he is afraid he is being followed by and then attacks with sufficient force that self-defense homicide is justified? Why?

xpost oic

But I mean if the article said "the defense may ARGUE that..." it would sound a little less weird

agreed

yeah, exactly. it's not at all bizarre given the way descriptions of events tend to change once the legal implications become fully understood.

― Fozzy Osbourne (contenderizer), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:03 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

no my point was that it IS bizarre insofar as it is completely fucking insane

right I mean the way I read it the article is actually saying "if he didn't do it, here's how it happened" not "here is some bullshit the defense might concoct."

What *is* insane, and what all this armchair lawyering is obscuring, is the fat that there is no defense because ZIMMERMAN HAS NOT BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME.

There’s a chance, for instance, that Zimmerman decided to stop following Trayvon after he was told by a police dispatcher “Okay, we don't need you to do that.” After that, Trayvon could have changed course and confronted Zimmerman.

It’s unclear. Only Zimmerman appears to know.

love this "well we'll never REALLY know what happened that night..." argument when there were like at least 3-5 witnesses plus Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone

love this "well we'll never REALLY know what happened that night..." argument when there were like at least 3-5 witnesses plus Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone

but that's the thing. we don't know yet who saw what, exactly. so far as i've been able to tell, there aren't any direct witnesses to the shooting other than zimmerman himself. obviously we haven't heard all the evidence yet, so who knows what'll shake out...

right I mean the way I read it the article is actually saying "if he didn't do it, here's how it happened"

i read it more as, "the law does protect zimmerman if this happened", but i agree that it was a bit o_0 as written

actual self defense: http://www.theroot.com/views/freed-prison-still-pain

So wait, why did Zimmerman have blood and grass stains on his back? I don't get that part

I can't really say much that hasn't already been said. This story is circulating heavily in the community, and even the "DURR IF YOU'D HEARD THE FIRST HALF OF THE RECORDING" dipshits are finding sympathy in this case. This could get very ugly, fast (not that it isn't already, but we've barely seen how bad things can get if Zimmerman isn't brought to justice. The people of Sanford are angrier than I've seen them in a long time.

Jeb Bush called the Stand Your Ground law "common sense" when he passed it. I would like to hear his thoughts on the law now, given what it has wrought over the last few years. I'm sure he would find a way to pass the buck and blame somebody else or assert "lack of evidence" in all of the cases cited earlier in the thread where the law was applied.

If Zimmerman is not charged, then I propose someone follow him everywhere on foot for a week, and when he finally yells at them "LEAVE ME ALONE", they shoot him and claim they were "standing their ground" and that he threatened them with the volume of his voice.

(Note I don't really believe in vigilante justice, I'm just really angry and flustered over this whole case. When my state wonders why it is so heavily criticized in the media, it should look no further than cases like this).

love this "well we'll never REALLY know what happened that night..." argument when there were like at least 3-5 witnesses plus Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone

― Lester the Unlikely (crüt), Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:42 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark

totally. Not to mention that even had Trayvon done what the writer says, people do tend to turn around and get ornery when you unnecessarily follow them and make them feel endangered, but that shouldn't give you the right to SHOOT them....but thanks to Florida's ambiguously worded law, there you go.

Not that I believe it anyway. Yes, the evidence is circumstantial, but there is plenty of it to suggest that Trayvon was guilty of being Black in Sanford in the vicinity of a guy who thought he was Seth Rogen in Observe and Report.

I would like Zimmermann to be interviewed to explain why he yelled "HELP!" on tape. which conveniently cuts out after the gun shots (sadly, I did listen to the recordings, and those of you who abstained...will be glad you did).

Did he like, get attacked, start screaming help, and then think "OH DURR WAIT, I HAVE A GUN!"?

o god, i listened to enough of that 911 call to make out the slur, but not to the end. didn't realize that the gun shots were captured, and i'm now super glad i quit when i did. so, uh, what impression do they give? like, do you get a clear picture of what happened?

they give an impression that hearing someone beg for mercy and then hearing loud, piercing gun shots is much scarier IRL than on television/movies.

(the audio doesn't paint a clear picture by itself, no, but in context with the other circumstantial pieces it paints part of the picture).

I could say that the "help" totally sounded like a kid but I don't think I could say that honestly, it's too hard to tell. Still, logically it doesn't make sense that it was Zimmermann yelling it. He was armed and the voice cut out when the shots rang out.

Someone yells help a bunch and 90% of the Internet thinks it's Martin and 10% thinks its Zimmerman. And there really should be a fucking attorney making that distinction right now; but Florida continues to be a worthless fucking shithole

if it was Zimmermann, he was yelling "Help" like Uncle Jimbo screamed "THEY'RE COMING RIGHT FOR US" on South Park

It's totally possible that it was Zimmerman screaming if theres truth to his probably-not-true story about being attacked.

Either way this is something a detective could figure out in like two hours; but it's best to just let the Internet make guesses. Good work, Florida, sink into the fucking Gulf

well considering that they sent a narcotics detective to investigate a homicide....

The state attorney's office also said a voice analysis would be conducted on 911 calls from the night of the shooting to determine who was yelling for help.

this mystery should be over soon.

in Zimmermann's 911 call he points out that the dude is Black like two or three times in the first five minutes. and says 'something is wrong with him' over and over...no specifics.

fucking loon.

you can totally tell he's pursuing Trayvon too because of his voice shaking, his heavy breathing, the excessive background noise...

this zimmerman guy seems like a pretty dim bulb

with a gun! the best kind of bulb.

this makes me so upset.

this whole thing is like a fucking horror movie

between this and the stuff in france it's like why do i ever even pay attention to the news

the france stuff is worse -- or even harder to read.

what a world.

http://motherjones.com/files/images/blog_trayvon_martin_cable_nets.jpg

has everyone heard the 'fucking coons' audio clip from Zimmerman's 911 call?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNI5CA5jijw&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ

some of us don't want to

well, true, but I'm thinking this is what is giving more weight to federal investigation of this as a hate crime; because otherwise this dumb ass florida stand your ground law really means that local authorities don't have any reason to prosecute this.

If this goes to trial, will there be jurors? Will it be hard finding jurors who haven't heard about this on the news?

no, unfortunately.

plz don't estimate the ignorance of north florida

underestimate*

Part of me was thinking this would lead to a self-selected jury group of people who just watch Fox news (since it's not being reported on there?); part of me feels many people tend not to interact w/the news.

troy davis might've been bigger than this and i'm pretty sure half the country still wouldn't be able to tell you who he is.

so the "fucking coons" thing, it certainly sounds LIKE that on the audio, but I have to be honest, it's not definitive by any means.

doesn't matter though. his repeating of the fact that Trayvon was black plus his statement to neighbors "watch out of young black males" indicates racial bias prior to his action.

probably in court

whoops, probably *not in court

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/21/10791755-neighbor-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter

IT'S THE BLACKS' FAULT THEY MADE ZIMMERMANN PARANOID!!

fuck this neighbor

"“I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.”"

o_0