education is primarily a barrier to entry: true or false

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (272 of them)

newton wrote that

i can tell you that what parents want re: math is high SAT scores and good state test results

the fastest way to good results is to teach to a test (ask anyone who teaches or has taught an SAT prep course), memorizing shortcuts and learning tricks

the problem is when you get to college, you realize suddenly that you need to be able to "reason judiciously", something our students get very little preparation for, even the "elite" students

i have always thought this is why there are declining numbers of american students at every level of science and math education - fewer students finish science degrees than start them, even fewer get into graduate degrees, even fewer get into and finish post-doctoral studies, etc etc

the late great, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

also the other side is that in countries that routinely kick our ass on math and science tests, the students are actually asked to learn fewer things than in american schools and they learn them more slowly ... but somehow they kick our ass when those students come to american school

the late great, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

they are also generally going to cost more to train at the undergrad level, so universities have little reason to push people into the fields

iatee, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

cost more? why?

the late great, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm not following what you're saying iatee

the late great, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

I teach in the humanities at a public uni & a few years back had a Vietnamese immigrant who struggled hard with written & oral English, didn't understand well the Western debates on monotheism, etc. She ended up kicking every other student's ass. The difference was partly that she actually came to office hours, unlike the others. But I don't really know what else it was: intrinsic smarts? work habits? I dunno, but it was eye opening.

Euler, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

science students require expenive labs, interaction w/ higher-paid faculty, humanities students require chalkboards and grad student teacher who you're paying 15k a year


iatee, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

not math faculty

Euler, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah I mean it's not true across the board but it's a partial explanation why there's not internal pressure to make science ed more accessible at any given university. it costs money and doesn't bring immediate benefits, unless your university is starting out w/ a surplus of science resources.

iatee, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

well they do generally charge lab fees for the labs

the late great, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

trying to find a breakdown, I remember reading it somewhere

iatee, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

science research otoh can bring in defense $$$$$ (and also other industry $$$$) while good luck getting grants for your novel interpretation of milton.

s.clover, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes, on the research level the opposite is true

iatee, Friday, 16 March 2012 20:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

My late father was a mechanical engineer by training, but it's amazing how the field hasn't changed. Sure, they use computers a lot more. My dad worked part-time up to the last month of his life, he adapted to the CAD programs just fine!

Engineers must maintain their math schools their entire life! My dad used to sit down at night with a math book! I envied him, people think math is hopelessly dry, it's interesting if you view it as an expression of spatial relationships! If you're into art or design or photography you might want to maintain some math skills.

My dad put a lot of pressure on me to learn math. It keeps your brain sharp and doesn't have any ideological bullshit in it. I like doing the odd math problem.

We had a math test in design school and I got a C! I got a high score on my math SAT but I hadn't practiced in a while.

Math and science don't discriminate based on background, but sometimes a student's social climate discourages them from learning math. i.e., if you struggle with math you are stupid! Conceptually, it is easier than philosophy or literature...doing the problems is difficult.

โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Got Gym (Mount Cleaners), Friday, 16 March 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

This seems quite salient here:

Masonic Boom, Sunday, 25 March 2012 09:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

here's an interesting one

the late great, Friday, 3 August 2012 06:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

i am pretty sure nobody really answers the final question in the comments but i didn't read all of them

the late great, Friday, 3 August 2012 07:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

post secondary education facilitated entry ime ; )

buzza, Friday, 3 August 2012 07:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.